tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post5027906592983978726..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: The Economics of ShtreimelsBrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-37157011001163198072007-06-18T22:30:00.000-04:002007-06-18T22:30:00.000-04:00one caveat about all of the above - we're a lot ol...one caveat about all of the above - we're a lot older than many people getting married now (we got married when husband was 33 and I was 27), and we felt no need to impress anyone with anything. <BR/><BR/>All of our friends were married so long ago that there's nothing to compare to... it took a lot of stress off of us. We ended up having an inexpensive but really fun wedding.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-904792792111902562007-06-18T22:26:00.000-04:002007-06-18T22:26:00.000-04:00humn. I got my wedding dress from a gemach, so it ...humn. I got my wedding dress from a gemach, so it didn't come up, but here in Israel, you can have a dress custom made for you for about $1,000 (which also seems fairly crazy to me.) <BR/><BR/>A decent shaitel runs upwards of $500, which is part of the reason I wear hats/scarves/bandannas. For that kind of money, I can afford a different one for every shirt I own and still have money left over.<BR/><BR/>Thank G-d, my husband is not the type for a shtreimel. I have enough issues with his hats (he has 2, both of which he bought for himself) being made of dead animals.<BR/><BR/>As for gifts... he gave me an engagement ring & wedding ring. the engagement ring is gorgeous, but we went for small, because I just couldn't see wearing rock that cost.... well, too much. The wedding ring is very simple, but hey, that's what a wedding ring is.<BR/><BR/>I bought him a tallis, kittel, tallis bag, and tfillin bag. (he had all of the above left from his first marriage, but I felt that a new marriage warranted a new "wardrobe."<BR/><BR/>In addition, in the yichud room, he gave me a necklace (with an ice-cream cone charm, because I LOVE ice cream). I later gave him a wedding band, which he wears on a dog-tag-type chain around his neck, because he can't stand having it on his finger. We also exchanged some small sentimental gifts right around then, like a fuzzy blanket, a pillow, a few keychains... <BR/><BR/>And as for flowers for the wedding - I think we spent about $250...including my bouquet, little crowns for all my nieces, boutinears (I know I misspelled that) for all the men in the immediate family, and rose petals on each table. The owner of the hall threw in centerpieces which were incredible and had us seriously shocked. We had decided on inexpensive candles (we bought candles and candlesticks at a local "dollar" store). The flowers on the table were a seriously nice bonus.<BR/><BR/>Another thing I think is a big waste is the open bar. I didn't want anyone getting shikkur at my wedding. We had a bottle of Glenfiddich at the tisch, and then 2 bottles of wine(one red, one white) at each table. Saved a small fortune and no one got drunk, but there was what to make a l'chayim over.Leah Goodmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16546935038863589318noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-24236785720367731162007-06-17T09:27:00.000-04:002007-06-17T09:27:00.000-04:00Note to self:Return Wolf's Father's Day shtreimel ...Note to self:<BR/>Return Wolf's Father's Day shtreimel ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-34658507723280992272007-06-15T17:55:00.000-04:002007-06-15T17:55:00.000-04:00First, in practice, the chassanim get what they wa...<I>First, in practice, the chassanim get what they want, not what the future father-in-law wants. So this gathering was targeted at the right audience.</I><BR/><BR/>This should be Purim material, but I'm afraid it's not.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-67784329860654591322007-06-15T15:10:00.000-04:002007-06-15T15:10:00.000-04:00I'm with Zach--spending $1,200 for a hat *is* craz...I'm with Zach--spending $1,200 for a hat *is* crazy. (Same for a sheitel, if you ask me, but then again, as a Conservative Jew, I have no idea how much a decent-looking sheitel costs.) Come on, guys, you can buy a perfectly respectable black kippah for, what, $30?<BR/><BR/>We tried to keep the fresh flowers to a minimum by planning to use the same two bouquets that had decorated the bima during the wedding for the reception upstairs in the synagogue social hall. Then we forgot to have them brought up anyway! Hmm, silk flowers would have been a good idea, but you're 30 years too late! :)Shira Salamonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989302669175887512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-66690787101460994272007-06-15T10:23:00.000-04:002007-06-15T10:23:00.000-04:00Is it just me, or does anyone else think that spen...Is it just me, or does anyone else think that spending $1200 for a HAT. is a bit crazy (never mind $4k)Zach Kessinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04276155117746098546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-36895929133970904372007-06-15T08:28:00.000-04:002007-06-15T08:28:00.000-04:00I think that both the fathers-in-law to be, as wel...I think that both the fathers-in-law to be, as well as the future Chassanim should have been present at this shindig. As has been pointed out here by various commentators, both sides need to agree to not spend so much on the shtreimels in order for this to work.<BR/>(Oh, Kmelion beat me to the punch regarding those custom sheitels! :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-91814709993263916252007-06-15T06:15:00.000-04:002007-06-15T06:15:00.000-04:00I wonder if they'll have the Kallahs for a similar...I wonder if they'll have the Kallahs for a similar gathering regarding $4,000 custom, hand-made, human hair sheitels...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-40496214448101704392007-06-15T05:07:00.000-04:002007-06-15T05:07:00.000-04:00I was at two recent simchas in Israel, a bar and a...I was at two recent simchas in Israel, a bar and a bat mitzvah, where they put flowering potted plants on the tables, that way the guests take home something that will last for a while rather than something that gets thrown out in a few days.<BR/><BR/>I don't mind how much someone spends on their own wedding if they're not asking me to pay for it (I've heard stories of parents financing a simcha from the presents but do not know any real-life cases), so long as they don't put a "suggested contribution" amount in with the invitation.Warren Bursteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09851196721637207769noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-91412951607760152492007-06-14T23:29:00.000-04:002007-06-14T23:29:00.000-04:00zach:we wanted to rent from tzedakah, but we could...zach:<BR/><BR/>we wanted to rent from tzedakah, but we couldn't get out act together. we ended up renting from "one of a kind florist" and still saved a ton of money.<BR/><BR/>buying real flowers for simchas should be illegal. there is no bigger waste of money.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-86860009239323787402007-06-14T22:19:00.000-04:002007-06-14T22:19:00.000-04:00Nice pontificating in theory, but in practice you ...Nice pontificating in theory, but in practice you are quite wrong. First, in practice, the chassanim get what they want, not what the future father-in-law wants. So this gathering <B><I>was</I></B> targeted at the right audience.<BR/><BR/>Second, while the market price for a shtreimel may currently be $4000, a move like this tends to bring the market price down in a hurry. There <I>are</I> ways to make nice-looking (if not quite as beautiful) shtreimlech for $1200 (and in fact,these are getting more popular lately) -- and this might be the final step that compels the shtreimel dealers to earnestly seek alternative methods and materials.<BR/><BR/>(I'm not asserting that this asifah will definitely bring about the desired outcome; I'm saying that if something is to be done, this is an excellent way to go about it -- at least for a start.Baal Devarimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06490450025721108241noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-22773738641223580082007-06-14T18:04:00.000-04:002007-06-14T18:04:00.000-04:00you can think of that Shtreimel as a wedding dress...<I>you can think of that Shtreimel as a wedding dress. People DO spend 4K+ on those.<BR/><BR/>well that is ridiculous also</I><BR/><BR/>How about spending lots of moolah on fresh flowers that will die the next day? We rented silk flowers from a N'shei tzedakah organization in Boro Park.<BR/><BR/>One can also rent a gown from a tzedakah group; often these then use the money for hachnassas callah (my mother-in-law handmade gowns for all of her daughters which were then donated after the chassanah.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-64821371059085965422007-06-14T14:37:00.000-04:002007-06-14T14:37:00.000-04:00DAG:"you can think of that Shtreimel as a wedding ...DAG:<BR/><BR/>"you can think of that Shtreimel as a wedding dress. People DO spend 4K+ on those."<BR/><BR/>well that is ridiculous alsoLion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-75891951400225626232007-06-14T14:35:00.000-04:002007-06-14T14:35:00.000-04:00WOLF:"Normally, I wouldn't care -- after all, it's...WOLF:<BR/><BR/>"Normally, I wouldn't care -- after all, it's their money, they are free to spend it as they wish"<BR/><BR/>think about this line the next time you are solicited to contribute to a hachnasat kallah fund for the chassidic velt.<BR/><BR/>"The crowd that they should have addressed was the fathers of girls of marriageable age."<BR/><BR/>it depends on what is the motivation to give these gifts. if it is to satisfy the expectations of the boys themselves, then they are the ones who need to be addressed.<BR/><BR/>in any case, it will be interesting to see how this will play out. if sumptuary laws can't succeed in a tight community like satmar, then they have no hope anywhere else.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-12568964472769975712007-06-14T14:08:00.000-04:002007-06-14T14:08:00.000-04:00Wolf....my reading was that less expensive shrteim...Wolf....my reading was that less expensive shrteimels are available for less than $1200 and that the top of the line models are what goes beyond that. That being said, I have no idea why $1200 was chosen as the cutoff....<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Shira...you can think of that Shtreimel as a wedding dress. People DO spend 4K+ on those. And the shtreimel has worth after the wedding as well!<BR/><BR/>That being said, I'm not sure why particular furs would be more desirable than others, except as a status symbol. THAT would defeat the purpose of wearing a shtreimel in the first place, IMHODAGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09475799835170867139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-86166791790060875942007-06-14T13:34:00.000-04:002007-06-14T13:34:00.000-04:00Official disclaimer: As a Conservative Jew, I sho...Official disclaimer: As a Conservative Jew, I should probably keep my big mouth shut on this one.<BR/><BR/>It probably also doesn't help that I *hate* clothes shopping, and, basically, live in <A HREF="http://www.landsend.com/" REL="nofollow">Land’s End</A> purchased by phone . :)<BR/><BR/>That said, though, it boggles my mind that *anyone* would spend $4,000 for *any* one item of clothing *ever*! Isn't there a "bal tashchit" (prohibition against wastefulness) issue involved in spending that kind of money on an item of clothing not required by halachah?Shira Salamonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989302669175887512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-56548225829361363672007-06-14T13:24:00.000-04:002007-06-14T13:24:00.000-04:00Is it only their money? Every year during the meg...Is it only their money? Every year during the megilla reading, there's a guy in a shtreimel in whichever shul I go to collecting tzedaka (I have no idea which hassidut he belongs to, I know there are people who can tell by the details of clothing, but I don't know how to do that). I give the guy one shekel because on Purim you give to whoever asks, but I can't help wondering how many people that hat could feed. I'd feel better about giving (and give more) to someone wearing a cheaper outfit, even if he's collecting for someone else, as he probably is.Warren Bursteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09851196721637207769noreply@blogger.com