tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post8935003968454870713..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: Does the Vatican Still Have the Temple Vessels?BrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger12125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-23968495027247765472013-09-17T14:26:20.693-04:002013-09-17T14:26:20.693-04:00I believe the Vatican does have the Menorah and ma...I believe the Vatican does have the Menorah and many other artifacts as well. The officials claimed they had no such thing in the Vatican. No, it may not be "in" the Vatican, it could be under the Vatican or perhaps at another location altogether. But I do believe it is in the Vatican's possession. I do not believe the Menorah was melted down for other purposes. It was too grand a trophy for that. Nonetheless, in the spirit of Christianity, Vatican officials, all plundered items (including those bought) should be returned to their rightful owners, meaning, the country it was taken from.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-58043151638597745082010-01-30T15:11:29.835-05:002010-01-30T15:11:29.835-05:00The Popes spent it all on prostitutes, wine, bacca...The Popes spent it all on prostitutes, wine, baccanalian orgies and mistresses; long ago... if there was anything left to melt down from the barberians.AI Spam Bothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02509335607779234377noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-90237958114501872292009-05-14T17:15:00.000-04:002009-05-14T17:15:00.000-04:00http://onthemainline.blogspot.com/2007/12/vatican-...http://onthemainline.blogspot.com/2007/12/vatican-menorah-myth.htmlMississippi Fred MacDowellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02734864605700159687noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-5854635763421638432009-05-13T15:37:00.000-04:002009-05-13T15:37:00.000-04:00I understood that they were melted immediately and...I understood that they were melted immediately and that the colosseum was built from the money...<br /><br />(At least, they say in the guided tours of the Colosseum, that it was built with the money from jerusalem)shoshinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-63619743520619438562009-05-12T14:25:00.000-04:002009-05-12T14:25:00.000-04:00Whether or not there are actually keilim from the ...Whether or not there are actually keilim from the Beis HaMikdash at the Vatican, you'd think the Pope could just come out and say if there are or not. If he says yes, they should give them up. If he says no, well - he's a Pope, and Popes never lie, right?<br /><br />Also, why is it that the only city you ever hear of being "sacked" is Rome. Why does only Rome get to use that word? I demand vocabulary equality!nobodyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07673099548876125906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-22026523858461856762009-05-12T13:40:00.000-04:002009-05-12T13:40:00.000-04:00As far as manuscripts, perhaps including massechto...As far as manuscripts, perhaps including massechtot of gemara we haven't got, they would not have come from stuff carried off by the Romans, but from confiscations in medieval Europe. Our copies of the Meiri, for instance (a work written in medieval Europe) are from the Vatican, although many portions were known from secondary sources. However, I doubt there are other Massechtot of Bavli--or Rashi or Tosphot would have referred to them somewhere. I believe Rashi lived before the first of the book confiscations. On the other hand rashi does cite midrashim not found in our collections, so there might be some material from the Talmudic period we haven't got.Mike Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-39407417085101334422009-05-12T12:24:00.000-04:002009-05-12T12:24:00.000-04:00They do have Jewish manuscripts, like some origina...They do have Jewish manuscripts, like some original Mishneh Torah copies handwritten by the Rambam.<br /><br />They also have the titles and records of all the land stolen by the Church from Jewish landowners over the centuries as well as artwork, books, etc.<br /><br />But they don't have the menorah.Garnel Ironheartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-11046313111995340392009-05-12T09:12:00.000-04:002009-05-12T09:12:00.000-04:00See this post where this issue is also discussed a...See this <A HREF="http://seforim.traditiononline.org/index.cfm/2006/8/1/Where-are-the-Temple-Vessels" REL="nofollow">post</A> where this issue is also discussed and a bibliography is provided.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-53507169887777667772009-05-12T00:44:00.000-04:002009-05-12T00:44:00.000-04:00Or just melted down by one of the popes when they ...Or just melted down by one of the popes when they were short on cash (which happened quite a bit). We are talking about almost 2000 years here. <br /><br />I'm sure they dp have some interesting Jewish Manuscripts that we would love to get our hands on but that is another topicZach Kessinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04276155117746098546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-32198413320885872782009-05-12T00:09:00.000-04:002009-05-12T00:09:00.000-04:00Childish,
I agree with you that there is a good p...Childish,<br /><br />I agree with you that there is a good possibility that the Vatican has memorabilia that Jewish historians would find very interesting. However, I doubt the keylim are there. Anything of that value from that long ago would have long ago been destroyed or stolen during one of the sackings of Rome.<br /><br />The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-26135952954938563012009-05-11T23:41:00.000-04:002009-05-11T23:41:00.000-04:00You know, you never know. The Vatican could have t...You know, you never know. The Vatican could have them, who can know one way or another? If not the Menorah and the other things, then they might have some of the sfarim that they stole from Jews many years ago. Who is to say what they have and don't have?Originally From Brooklynhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05927411127491577903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-11958110712263181262009-05-11T22:02:00.000-04:002009-05-11T22:02:00.000-04:00I went to a scholarly lecture on this a couple of ...I went to a scholarly lecture on this a couple of months ago.<br /><br />No, they're not in Rome. They were smelted down and carried off by the Visigoths or the Vandals. The Pope has NO Jewish treasures.<br /><br />And the most interesting thing is that the whole story that these things are sitting in the Vatican was started in a New York Jewish paper in the 1950's!Garnel Ironheartnoreply@blogger.com