tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post9157472210065084382..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: With Great Power Comes Great ResponsibilityBrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-41440232048061604022010-12-30T15:38:04.271-05:002010-12-30T15:38:04.271-05:00Alrighty then.Alrighty then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-79367287532862265372010-12-30T15:31:51.253-05:002010-12-30T15:31:51.253-05:00Im not interested in measurements of anything, esp...Im not interested in measurements of anything, especially not if you have them already. I wouldnt even know where to find them, nor do i care.emanglubZappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-73315453400789686022010-12-30T15:21:43.632-05:002010-12-30T15:21:43.632-05:00I dont believe whatever you are referring to is in...<b>I dont believe whatever you are referring to is incorrect.</b><br />Then I'm sure it will be very easy for you to explain what were the correct dimensions of the kerashim and how these dimensions were calculated.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-45647699665234979792010-12-30T15:15:43.903-05:002010-12-30T15:15:43.903-05:00I dont believe whatever you are referring to is in...I dont believe whatever you are referring to is incorrect. If it's in the Mishna or Gemara, it is inherently truth. There are no errors in Torah, and the written version is exactly the same as the Oral version, bank on it. Your Stanley measuring tape is mistaken appraently.zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-31246949000353947672010-12-30T15:03:36.501-05:002010-12-30T15:03:36.501-05:00Please answer my question.Please answer my question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-25142557348072260722010-12-30T14:53:18.403-05:002010-12-30T14:53:18.403-05:00What on earth is so important about the thickness ...What on earth is so important about the thickness of some boards for crying out loud? Are you going to extrapolate from errors in measurement to the validity of Torah? What are you, a building contractor or something? Perhaps you found some mistakes in the construction of Noah's ark too, so therefore it couldnt have happened. Or maybe carbon dating doesnt match up to the years that Torah says, or maybe it's not possible that the entire nation of Israel stood like sardines in the Temple courtyard, yet had plenty of room to prostrate themselves. This is pointless.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-47084407266639909102010-12-30T14:43:56.901-05:002010-12-30T14:43:56.901-05:00Like I said, if you can tell me why it was SO impo...Like I said, if you can tell me why it was SO important to write down and perpetuate for 2000 years several INCORRECT opinions about the dimensions of the kerashim of the framework of the Tabernacle, I would be very grateful to you... ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-68752520865660082832010-12-30T14:29:07.885-05:002010-12-30T14:29:07.885-05:00If you understood WHY it was written down you woul...If you understood WHY it was written down you wouldn't be so adamant about it. Is it better that people should have C"V forgotten it altogether. Thank God R"Y had the foresight to write it down. Do you think you would be qualified to not only learn it all by heart, but to then give it over to your children as was done prior to it being written down? We don't even come close to the toenails of those Sages, so if they deemed it necessary, it was necessary. One of the biggest problems with rationalists and reasonists is that they think they have as much brain power and are on an even keel with even the Rabbanim of 20 years ago, to say nothing about those of 2,000 years ago. They mastered the entire Torah by the age of what, 5? 10? A 10 year old today can't even pee straight.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-22982625590332228392010-12-30T14:14:50.308-05:002010-12-30T14:14:50.308-05:00Alexsandr, I assume you do not consider yourself t...<b>Alexsandr, I assume you do not consider yourself to be a frum Jew then, because there are zero Orthodox opinions to back up your disbelief.</b><br /><br />And I told you that this is not a question of faith, it is a question of reason. <br /><br />I do believe that Chumash is divine. I absolutely believe in the necessity and importance of Oral Tradition. <br /><br />The only thing I'm against is <a rel="nofollow">writing down</a> the Oral Tradition and making it into continuation of the Written Law (Chumash).<br /><br />There is a very very good reason why Oral Tradition was intended to be ORAL. It is extremely important to have it tranmitted VERBALY and NOT in writing.<br /><br />If you do not understand this subtle but very critical nuance, then there is nothing more I can tell you....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-23118746100315781502010-12-30T13:58:53.610-05:002010-12-30T13:58:53.610-05:00Alexsandr, I assume you do not consider yourself t...Alexsandr, I assume you do not consider yourself to be a frum Jew then, because there are zero Orthodox opinions to back up your disbelief.<br /><br />You know very well that I don't mean who held the pen & wrote. You're being argumentative. God dictated it, Moshe wrote, but it's all God's words, not His "approval" of Moshe's own thoughts. God looked into the Torah and created the world. That means all 5 books, not just the first 4.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-83559067093660347872010-12-30T13:32:58.702-05:002010-12-30T13:32:58.702-05:00Zapper….what does Ex. 6:17-20 say about Moses’ gen...Zapper….what does Ex. 6:17-20 say about Moses’ genealogy <br /><br />>>>> Written by Moshe? Are you insane? NOBODY in the yeshiva world, haredi or otherwise, says such a thing. The entire Torah, from B to D, AND the Mishna/Talmud was given to Moshe, on Sinai. Any other version is kefira.<br /><br />Well then I guess Abaye in Megilla 31b was a kofer. He believed that the “tokheche” in Deut. was written by Moishe. Also, the Maharal in his Tifferet Yisroel wrote that the 2nd “asseret hadibrot” were written by Moishe. He says this to explain why the text differs from the first dibrot. And there are many other such opinions about Moishe authoring parts of Devariam (with Hashem’s approval, of course).david a.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-74635543305167506642010-12-30T13:25:52.424-05:002010-12-30T13:25:52.424-05:00Ok.
But unless you can answer this, an many other...Ok.<br /><br />But unless you can answer this, an many other questions like that, please save your preposterous claims about divine nature of the "Written Oral Torah".<br /><br />If you choose to belive that it is divine - it is your business, of'course. <br /><br />But it does not mean it is so by any account.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-84605037364198771872010-12-30T13:18:35.385-05:002010-12-30T13:18:35.385-05:00I have no idea, I'm not into learning those th...I have no idea, I'm not into learning those things. When Mashiach comes he'll give us the blueprints. I'm satisfied with that.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-32549975774976248942010-12-30T13:08:32.877-05:002010-12-30T13:08:32.877-05:00The Mishna is not opinion, sir. It is law, directl...<b>The Mishna is not opinion, sir. It is law, directly from God. It is undebateable. </b><br /><br />Then why don't you tell me what was the thickness of the kerashim and how it was calculated. <br /><br /><b>The only difference between the smicha of a Rav Shteinman and that of what Moshe gave to Joshua is the laying of the hands part. </b><br /><br />As far as I know, there is no universal agreement on what it should be, who may perform it, and how it should be performed. Each denomination has its rules and regulations at the moment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1365483357797980872010-12-30T12:58:15.272-05:002010-12-30T12:58:15.272-05:00The Mishna is not opinion, sir. It is law, directl...The Mishna is not opinion, sir. It is law, directly from God. It is undebateable. <br />It is not 10-15%. Nearly the entire Jewish world accepts it, frum or not. They may not observe it, but they don't say it's not from God. And if they do, then they don't count among Jewry.<br />The Sanhedrin has nothing to do with it. The only difference between the smicha of a Rav Shteinman and that of what Moshe gave to Joshua is the laying of the hands part. Other than that, its the same and carries the same weight in our eyes. It's makes no difference if you buy it or not, cuz its not for sale.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-55228404411005993782010-12-30T12:39:41.555-05:002010-12-30T12:39:41.555-05:00So you reject what R'Yehuda HaNasi wrote down?...<b>So you reject what R'Yehuda HaNasi wrote down?</b><br />I can only tell you that I reject his opinion about the boards (kerashim) of the framework of the Tabernacle. <br /><br /><b>You must think pretty highly of yourself to reject what the rest of the Jewish world has accepted. </b><br />I highly doubt that 10-15% of the world Jewry, Orthodox Jews, can be considered "the rest of the Jewish world".<br /><br /><b>Tell me, you got your smicha where?</b><br />Unless there exists an official Sanhedrin I do not know about, I do not think that your question is appropriate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-30983302432742881612010-12-30T12:19:06.316-05:002010-12-30T12:19:06.316-05:00You previously said the age of exile, not Exodus. ...You previously said the age of exile, not Exodus. I was referring to the exile from the end of the Temple #2.<br /> So you reject what R'Yehuda HaNasi wrote down?You must think pretty highly of yourself to reject what the rest of the Jewish world has accepted. Tell me, you got your smicha where?Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-16323022664822022582010-12-30T12:08:46.955-05:002010-12-30T12:08:46.955-05:00So basically you don't believe in the Oral Tor...<b>So basically you don't believe in the Oral Torah as we have it written today.</b><br /><br />I do believe in Oral Torah, but I absoltely reject it being in the written form. Prior to writing of the Mishna in ~200CE, it was in the Oral form (just in case you going to make another smart remark).<br /><br /><b>Your math is wrong though. A generation is approximately 40 years. We are barely in the 50th generation now. 50 generations is 2000 years.</b><br /><br />Exodus would have occured, by very rough approximation, in ~1400BC. Today is 2010CE. This gives us 3410 years. <br /><br />An average span of a generation is considered 30 years, although today in US it is about 22-23 years.<br /><br />This places us 113-155 generations from the time of Exodus.<br /><br />Age of Tanaim, or the time when Oral Torah was started to be written down, was between 70-200CE.<br /><br />Age of Amoraim, when Oral Torah was completed to be written down, was between 200-500CE.<br /><br />This means that we are 113-155 generations from Exodus, 47-85 generations from the Tanaim, and 40-75 generations from Amoraim.<br /><br />So my math is more or less correct.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-42903405101395613072010-12-30T09:34:26.634-05:002010-12-30T09:34:26.634-05:00So basically you don't believe in the Oral Tor...So basically you don't believe in the Oral Torah as we have it written today. Ok, just want to make sure I know where you stand. That ends my part in this. Have a nice day.<br /><br />Your math is wrong though. A generation is approximately 40 years. We are barely in the 50th generation now. 50 generations is 2000 years.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-59468154244113719572010-12-30T02:03:11.326-05:002010-12-30T02:03:11.326-05:00Aleksandr -
Start your own little religion. It h...Aleksandr - <br /><br />Start your own little religion. It has nothing to do with Judaism.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-53882934884069428362010-12-30T00:55:44.701-05:002010-12-30T00:55:44.701-05:00Well, considering that they were completely exiled...Well, considering that they were completely exiled from the Land of Israel, I'd say that they were quite wrong in their doings.<br /><br />And fyi, even Tanaim were probably at least 20-50 generations from the generation of Exodus - not "couple".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-27714351177851701892010-12-29T23:52:51.735-05:002010-12-29T23:52:51.735-05:00So you're saying that it was wrong for the Tan...So you're saying that it was wrong for the Tanaim and Amoraim to do what they did? The very people who were just a couple of generations away from Moshe himself got it wrong? Please tell me you're not saying that.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-416997167009663152010-12-29T23:48:19.588-05:002010-12-29T23:48:19.588-05:00I dont know what u mean by general interpretations...<b>I dont know what u mean by general interpretations.</b><br /><br />As example from Deut 21:1-9 (dead body case)...<br /><br />Elders would measure the distance from the corpse to the city.<br /><br />Judges would assure that all measuring (halachic) procedures are followed correctly.<br /><br />But an ultimate judgement of which city is closer to the corpse would be made by the Levites. In this case, as you have noticed, it would be Priestly Levites (Kohanim). <br /><br /><b>All the Amoraim and Tanaim interpreted the laws, not on a specific case basis, and they were not Levites.</b><br />Yes, I know. And this is basically the problem. The fact that it was so for a long time does not mean that The Law of Moses had changed (or should be changed).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-38996198978439452202010-12-29T23:31:39.044-05:002010-12-29T23:31:39.044-05:00I dont know what u mean by general interpretations...I dont know what u mean by general interpretations. All the Amoraim and Tanaim interpreted the laws, not on a specific case basis, and they were not Levites.Zappernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-61525079076640305652010-12-29T23:26:21.459-05:002010-12-29T23:26:21.459-05:00The original judges were the zkenim, chosen from E...<b>The original judges were the zkenim, chosen from EACH tribe. Not just Levites. The future judges were modeled directly after those judges, again from each tribe. The Sanhedrin was NOT all Levites, and the Sanhedrin were the judges.</b><br /><br />I agree with that. Perhaps you have misunderstood me.<br /><br />I said that Judges did not have the power to interpret the Law - it was a job of a Levites.<br /><br />Judges only interpreted the law within the specific case boundaries, but they could not make any general interpretation of the Law.<br /><br />In US the only court that can interpret the constitution is, generaly speaking, the Supreme Court. <br /><br />And Supreme Court Justices have different powers than that of any other judges in the system.<br /><br />Your local small claims court judge does not have the power to interpret the US contitution, you know.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com