tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post115513599689047752..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: Dating: How it was and How it isBrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-10662566287129040112006-09-19T01:11:00.000-04:002006-09-19T01:11:00.000-04:00Wolf:
"The Shadchan's job is to bring people toge...Wolf:<br /><br />"The Shadchan's job is to bring people together. "<br /><br />speaking of professional shadchanim, my (second-hand)impression is that the shadchan's job is . . .well it is just a job. with all that this implies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-76893867351019345952006-08-31T09:55:00.000-04:002006-08-31T09:55:00.000-04:00My methods are less productive but less trouble.
...My methods are less productive but less trouble. <br /><br />1. Go on jdate.<br /><br />2. Don't contact the only age-appropriate woman more observant than I am; I already know her.<br /><br />3. Don't contact the 90% of the people who are so much less religious than I am that it would be a bad fit.<br /><br />4. The in-between 9% are all single moms, and I definitely am not mature enough to be a stepdad (and probably won't be till I am, I don't know, 60).<br /><br />5. Having wasted half an hour online, fantasize about moving to a bigger city with more Jews!<br /><br />6. Repeat process a few weeks later!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155330021956780052006-08-11T17:00:00.000-04:002006-08-11T17:00:00.000-04:00Eeees-I'm with you. We need to provide more oppor...Eeees-I'm with you. We need to provide more opportunities for dating, not less. But, more important than providing opportunities, we need to make the alternatives acceptable! <BR/><BR/>And, I have to agree with anon that this generation is more fragile and that should be worked on too. I would even say that the shidduch system today creates a fragileness that hurts many daters.Orthonomicshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07892074485262548496noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155226952165862212006-08-10T12:22:00.000-04:002006-08-10T12:22:00.000-04:00Eeees... you say the sweetest things! :)Steg... I...Eeees... you say the sweetest things! :)<BR/><BR/>Steg... I don't know if there is a "Shadchan Code of Ethics" or not, but if there is, that would seem, to be, to be a breach of the highest order. The Shadchan's job is to bring people together. Once that's done, it not up to him/her to have second thoughts and pass judgement on the relationship (of course, assuming, of course, that it isn't something vital -- such as if s/he suddenly discovers that she's a gerusha and he's a Kohen).<BR/><BR/>Anonymous (first) - Firstly, your English is fine... no need to worry about it.<BR/><BR/>While you gave me the example of Yitzchok and Rivka, I can turn around and give you others where people simply met and became married without a formal Shadchan. Ya'akov and Rachel springs immediately to mind.<BR/><BR/>I guess my point is that with all the talk of a "shidduch crisis" and with examples of girls having difficulty finding someone to marry, we should be making it easier, not harder, for people to meet. We should be breaking down barriers that prevent men and women from finding each other, not erecting additional barriers that they have to go around.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous (second) - I'm not so sure that the average person today is less frum than the average person in R. Shimon ben Gamliel's time. I may have to do another post on Yeridas HaDoros... haven't done one in a while.<BR/><BR/>Somehow, I wonder if the problem you describe isn't because girls and boys simply don't know how to talk and relate to each other. After all, in many cases, the prospective chosson/kallah had absolutely no contact with the opposite gender (aside from siblings and cousins -- and in many cases even not the latter) in their age group from birth until shidduch dating. So, when they are thrust into this world, they have no idea how to relate to men and women of their own age. As such, when it comes time to make a mature decision to break off a relationship, they are afraid to do it face to face, because they have no idea what to expect.<BR/><BR/>Incredulous: <BR/><BR/>Where to begin? First, begin with a blog...<BR/><BR/>BTW, just for full disclosure... Eeees and I met on our own. The only Shadchan we had was HKBH.<BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155221306689849782006-08-10T10:48:00.000-04:002006-08-10T10:48:00.000-04:00Ilan Goodman said: "Don't froget that back in the ...Ilan Goodman said: "Don't froget that back in the day, on Tu ba'av, it says that the yetzer Hara had no power, so girls could sing and dance and genrally boggie without a probelm"<BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/>Frum Jew said: "the problem isn't that we today are more frum than Rebbi Gamliel but that we are far, far less frum. And, I'm sure you know that!"<BR/><BR/>OY OY OY! Where to begin??????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155219998923903562006-08-10T10:26:00.000-04:002006-08-10T10:26:00.000-04:00Wolf, as I'm sure you really know, the problem isn...Wolf, as I'm sure you really know, the problem isn't that we today are more frum than Rebbi Gamliel but that we are far, far less frum. And, I'm sure you know that!<BR/><BR/>Having said that, I think the rest of your post is pretty close to the mark, at least, in many circles. I have been married for almost 22 years, B"H. When I was 'in the parsha', I used a shadchan, but also met girls in that unholy of unholy places, The Homowak Hotel in New York! As Hashem would have it, despite all those shidduch dates, I met my wife at the Homowak. Technically, I guess, you might say I used a Shadchan in so far as a friend of mine who was there, knew her, and was talking to her when I walked over to talk to him said, "Oh by the way, XXXXX, this is YYYYY; YYYYY, this is XXXXX." We took it from there.<BR/>But it is now over 2 decades later and we have children who are going to be 'in the parsha' pretty soon. And what a different parsha it is. We are currently in the middle of making a few shidduchim and whereas the people with whom we are dealing are friends and so, we're not getting all the stupid questions, we are being exposed to this 'I can't talk to the girl except through the shadchan' business. It's very strange!<BR/><BR/>My impression is that boys and girls today are a bunch of wussies; they are too frail emotionally to handle rejection very well. I actually had someone tell me that they do not have the courage to tell the other partner that they wanted to break off the dating (they went out twice) and would, therefore, perfer that this information come from the shadchan. I can't remember how many girls I broke up with and visa versa in my dating career until the right one came along. <BR/>My wife and I hope we don't have to deal with this sort of thing when our children start dating. Especially since I don't think any of my boys will be Lakewood types.<BR/><BR/>Frum JewAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155219576383029272006-08-10T10:19:00.000-04:002006-08-10T10:19:00.000-04:00Anonymous, its not that we are trying to knock us...Anonymous, its not that we are trying to knock using shadchanim..just those who believe that that is the absolute ONLY WAY. If everyone who ever went out on a shidduch date was blessed with a shadchan that had the divine "ok" that Hashem sent to Eliezer, then setting people up with their true bashert would be a lot easier, and there would be a lot less single people in the world.<BR/>Alas..that isn't the case!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155203037994573292006-08-10T05:43:00.000-04:002006-08-10T05:43:00.000-04:00First of all, sorry for my bad English. Second, in...First of all, sorry for my bad English. Second, in my opinion, your posting is very biased.<BR/><BR/>Wolf, did you remember how Avraham Avinu seeked for Itzhak's bride? He dispatched his servant Eliezer (aka shadchan) who did all the searches and preparations. And Itzhak didn't see his bride till her arriving!<BR/><BR/>Let's suppose that there are - at least - two separate ways to make a shidduch: Avraham's (the chareidi way) and the common way, as it is described in the Talmud.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155196893181894882006-08-10T04:01:00.000-04:002006-08-10T04:01:00.000-04:00I wonder if there are any shadchans who don't pass...I wonder if there are any shadchans who don't pass on messages of interest. Like if they have second thoughts about the match, not telling the man and woman that the other one is interested even though both of them are.Steg (dos iz nit der šteg)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07694556690190505030noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155175450731269492006-08-09T22:04:00.000-04:002006-08-09T22:04:00.000-04:00Don't froget that back in the day, on Tu ba'av, it...Don't froget that back in the day, on Tu ba'av, it says that the yetzer Hara had no power, so girls could sing and dance and genrally boggie without a probelm.<BR/><BR/>It can't be as bad as you say,but I did'nt use a matchmaker. I found a girl knew I would marry, but who had no interst in me. I follow her around for four months, harassed her at work and school (same job and college) and generally was such a pest that considered calling the police on me for harassment. But she figured out we were meant for eac other and we got married. So the key is persistance. It's only stalking if it does'nt work.<BR/><BR/>Also, We are trying to marry off her mother, so don't write any more downer posts on the subject. We prefer illisuion to dispear.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155169752473895642006-08-09T20:29:00.000-04:002006-08-09T20:29:00.000-04:00Chainik..Mazal Tov on your engagement!I think that...Chainik..<BR/>Mazal Tov on your engagement!<BR/>I think that your kallah's friends leave something to be desired if they think that there is something wrong with your wanting to support your wife and family (IY"H!). Even some of the great Rabbonim were known to have (gasp!!) been shopkeepers who needed to (Shh..not in front of the children!!) work to put food on the table. And, sure, some only kept their stores open until they felt that they had made enough money to live on for the day, and then would close down <BR/>till the next day; but that probably wouldn't go over very well with one's boss nowadays. Its lucky that they were their own bosses!<BR/>Personally, I feel that a guy who earns an honest living and is koveya itim (sets time to learn) is doing the ratzon Hashem. (Really glad that I was zocheh to marry a certain Brooklyn wolf who does just that! ;)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155168312607052172006-08-09T20:05:00.000-04:002006-08-09T20:05:00.000-04:00Now that I am safely engaged, I can say without fe...Now that I am safely engaged, I can say without fear of retribution: there is something seriously wrong with the shidduch system. <BR/><BR/>Funny story: I live in Lakewood. All my kallah's friends were impressed as all get out to find out that she is marrying a "Lakewood boy"... until they find out I work for a living. <BR/><BR/>I guess being koveya itim isn't enough for some people.The Chainik Hockerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03207746929747440827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1155143703549572112006-08-09T13:15:00.000-04:002006-08-09T13:15:00.000-04:00Oy, simply oy. I can share nothing more. I'm just ...Oy, simply oy. I can share nothing more. I'm just glad I have free will and free choice in these matters. <BR/><BR/>I definitely like some aspects of shidduch dating...but I know it just wouldn't click for me. My skeletons would scare the bejeezuz out of othersTamarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15749298944837540784noreply@blogger.com