tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post1238090087101997692..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: Va'ad HaTznius in Lakewood?BrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger56125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-22599221700354387302014-12-13T22:37:11.194-05:002014-12-13T22:37:11.194-05:00As someone who has had dealings with the Vaad, I c...As someone who has had dealings with the Vaad, I can testify that #1: they are laypeople with power trips and limited understanding of people, and #2: it's NOT easy to get in their good graces once you're in their sights. Based on a prior history from which I had recovered, using entrapment and outright lies they pursued me, involved me and then "caught" me in a compromised tznius situation. They imposed on me a random treatment plan under their own therapist, which turned out to be a colossal waste of time and money. The therapist was a novice being supervised by someone who showed himself to be aligned with the Vaad rather than with the client's healing in mind. The treatment goals were established in sync with the Vaad's misdiagnosis of the issue, rather than based on the true diagnosis of a mental health professional. After nearly a year of treatment the therapist still couldn't help me re-ingratiate myself with the Vaad. I've been living with tremendous anger toward the rabbonim who have supported these horrible mafiosos, and my general frumkeit has gone down significantly since these gangsters have infiltrated my life. I know my comment will invite all sorts of judgments, but know that until this incident I was very involved in learning, and my activities were 95pct leshem shamayim and 5pct tayvah. Now I barely care about much to do with Yiddishkeit. I'm doing whatever I still do by rote. Rabbonim have become untrustworthy to me, and the people in Lakewood's Vaad hatznius are to me the scum of the earth. If they hadn't shown strong-arm tactics and really tried to help I might still be the frum yungerman I once was.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-86046429486329549872009-11-16T08:06:22.210-05:002009-11-16T08:06:22.210-05:00Interesting post you got here. It would be great t...Interesting post you got here. It would be great to read something more about that matter.<br />BTW look at the design I've made myself <a href="http://www.admirableescorts.com/overnight_escorts_london.html" rel="nofollow">Overnight escort</a>Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-62577947507720038782008-08-14T18:28:00.000-04:002008-08-14T18:28:00.000-04:00"rethink that if you don't think that the ultra-re..."rethink that if you don't think that the ultra-religious aren't fanatical and operating on the fringe."<BR/><BR/>I think purveyors of that attitude are fanatical.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-47773071052548520482008-08-14T18:12:00.000-04:002008-08-14T18:12:00.000-04:00Joseph said:"Regarding the acid incident, obviousl...Joseph said:<BR/>"Regarding the acid incident, obviously whoever did it is a fringe lunatic and should be prosecuted. That being said, it should be recognized as such. Fringe. It is lunacy and thankfully almost unheard of. It is no reflection on anyone (the Vaad's, etc.) other than the criminal who committed it."<BR/><BR/>Sorry Joseph, rethink that if you don't think that the ultra-religious aren't fanatical and operating on the fringe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-28573813652852010432008-08-11T09:49:00.000-04:002008-08-11T09:49:00.000-04:00beitarman,Contacting the Gedolim is not as hard as...beitarman,<BR/><BR/>Contacting the Gedolim is not as hard as you may imagine. Most of the Gedolim are actually listed in the phonebook. Many of them pick up their own phones. Considering how busy they are, you may have imagined it was like trying to reach President Bush. But it ain't so.<BR/><BR/>Regarding the acid incident, obviously whoever did it is a fringe lunatic and should be prosecuted. That being said, it should be recognized as such. Fringe. It is lunacy and thankfully almost unheard of. It is no reflection on anyone (the Vaad's, etc.) other than the criminal who committed it.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-2665948465503038102008-08-11T06:26:00.000-04:002008-08-11T06:26:00.000-04:00I am not a blogger, but have recently gotten invol...I am not a blogger, but have recently gotten involved in the situation with the Vaad Ha'Ichlus / Vaad Hatznius in Beitar where i live. Perhaps you have heard of the incident in which a 13 year old girl had acid thrown in her face, which nearly missed blinding her for life. I know her family and decided to write about it on a blog so as to get the real story out. I just discovered this post about Lakewood and found Wolf's analysis right on target, based on my real life experiences and knowledge here. Please check out what i have written about this at: <BR/><BR/>http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/07/acid-attack-on-14year-old-girl-in.html<BR/><BR/>http://daattorah.blogspot.com/2008/08/big-brother-in-beitar.html<BR/><BR/>read all the posts on Beitar, 1-4.<BR/><BR/>trust me, whatever is public is only the tip of the iceberg.<BR/><BR/>i have also considered contacting gedolim in america, but i am not sure the best way to approach it.<BR/><BR/>i have thought of trying to get a vaad hakannaus formed, one that deals with and respnds to acts of vigilantism and other acts of renegade "kannaim", with clear practical guidelines and implementations of how to prevent and deal with these occurrences. again, Wolf, your analysis is very very important and realistic. basically everything you mentioned<BR/>is an existent problem with the setup here, though the corrupt deals between police and the Vaad here probably didnt cross your mind as an issue in America...?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-48966673023793530232008-08-08T00:39:00.000-04:002008-08-08T00:39:00.000-04:00The Reform and Conservative feel the same way as y...The Reform and Conservative feel the same way as you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-55444885406675151172008-08-07T22:03:00.000-04:002008-08-07T22:03:00.000-04:00Criticalmass said:"Many many Jews are leaving Yidd...Criticalmass said:<BR/>"Many many Jews are leaving Yiddishkeit- they go off the derech and stay off the derech. In all my reading on this subject: Jews who simply opt out of orthodoxy- the most common reason they provide for leaving a frum lifestyle and becoming secular is receiving criticism for asking complex questions and having extreme standards imposed on them that simply cannot handle. So they become a statistic and leave Yiddishkeit forever."<BR/><BR/>That is exactly why I, a jewish woman, left. Reading about this nonsense makes me feel GREAT about my decision. Perhaps this is what needs to be addressed. It is sad that little has changed in the community and seems to grow worse. Let's leave the final judgements to Hashem, not these "Va'ads". To put it in a secular way, who the hell do they think they are?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-10328811270171701742008-08-05T15:13:00.000-04:002008-08-05T15:13:00.000-04:00And we also need a va'ad to check up on every othe...And we also need a va'ad to check up on every other va'ad .Perhaps an exploratory va'ad can be set up to find out if such a va'ad is feasible.Of course,we would need another va'ad to pick the members of the exploratory va'ad.I must go now.I'm on the va'ad of the ad hoc committee to ban ad hoc committees.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-92225556770690897482008-08-05T12:25:00.000-04:002008-08-05T12:25:00.000-04:00"I will be glad to give you all the contact info"....<I>"I will be glad to give you all the contact info". Contact info includes addresses as well.</I><BR/><BR/>Thank you for clarifying that point, in the original comment you only made mention of phone number.<BR/><BR/><I>People have posted explicit methods of obtaining the contact information sought, to no avail.</I><BR/><BR/>There's that conclusion jumping again...you have no way of knowing what has been done or what information has been obtained.<BR/><BR/>--again i will repeat that this entire process is not at the top of my "to do right away" list, it will get accomplished in an orderly and timely fashion...i'm sorry if that speed does not meet with your time-table.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-18353913631621899142008-08-04T12:34:00.000-04:002008-08-04T12:34:00.000-04:00My dear G,Once again, the shoe is on the other foo...My dear G,<BR/><BR/>Once again, the shoe is on the other foot. I clearly wrote "I will be glad to give you all the contact info". Contact info includes addresses as well.<BR/><BR/>Before I graciously bow out of this thread (which seems to me to have degenerated into personal attacks, something that I plead guilty to as well and apologised for) I want to make clear that I stand by what I posted above. It's been a couple of days since a willingness was expressed but nothing concrete was done. People have posted explicit methods of obtaining the contact information sought, to no avail. The offer was upped to give it via email, Shulchan Aruch (on a silver platter is the English expression). It is now August 4 and no one responded.<BR/><BR/>It's easy to talk the talk but much harder (in this case, it appears, too hard for the personalities involved) to walk the walk.<BR/><BR/>Kol Tuv and Hatzlacha.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-5886977821027164132008-08-03T01:49:00.000-04:002008-08-03T01:49:00.000-04:00Learn to read.>You plan on making contact via w...Learn to read.<BR/><BR/>>You plan on making contact via writing?<BR/><BR/>>>Yes, letter.<BR/><BR/>forgive me if i take more than 24 hrs to accomplish this earth shattering assignment but i do have other things that take slight precedence. If you are still in doubt as to nature of my intentions you can contact Mr. Wolf directly and ask him if i have requested permission to use this post as the basis for a letter...not exactly something someone who was only interested in talking would do, now is it?<BR/><BR/>as for your "apology"...jumping to conclusions and casting aspersions only to then extend apologies soon thereafter as apposed to actually putting some thought into what might be the other's position and that you might actually be wrong does not count for much in my book, but i can understand how you would think it would - it's so much easier that way, isn't itGhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-47398999583476518472008-08-01T18:25:00.000-04:002008-08-01T18:25:00.000-04:00Dear G,If I'm mistaken and you sincerely are inter...Dear G,<BR/><BR/>If I'm mistaken and you sincerely are interested, please accept my apologies. You can contact me at GedolimContactInfo@gmail.com for the next couple of days and I will be glad to give you all the contact info you need.<BR/><BR/>Good Shabbos.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-59043586152140470392008-08-01T17:59:00.000-04:002008-08-01T17:59:00.000-04:00My dear G, it isn't the supposed vitriol, it's bei...My dear G, it isn't the supposed vitriol, it's being called on the mat that has your dander up.<BR/><BR/>You first expressed the supposed willingness to contact a Rosh Yeshiva on the 30'th. It is now the first of August. You couldn't find any telephone numbers in the ensuing days? Just now, in less then three minutes, using Whitepages I was able to pull up R' Kotler's telephone number. Try Kotler in Lakewood NJ. See which ones have his initials. This is besides R' Shmuel's, which as I posted above, is just as accesible. If anything, your parents should remove the rattle from your fingers, it seems that it's impeding your, oh so very concerted, search for those elusive numbers. <BR/><BR/>It's clear that you talk the talk, but refuse to walk the walk. It's easier that way, isn't it?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-56481038034166932182008-08-01T14:37:00.000-04:002008-08-01T14:37:00.000-04:00joseph, good to know.--------------So all those wi...joseph, <BR/>good to know.<BR/>--------------<BR/><BR/><I>So all those with questions, put up or shut up.</I><BR/><BR/>My dear anon, that is exactly what we are endevoring to do...if only you would put down your chew toy and read through the comments to this point that would be plainly obvious.<BR/><BR/>Now go burn off you vitriol somewhere else, adults are talking.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-12886187624833916882008-08-01T13:54:00.000-04:002008-08-01T13:54:00.000-04:00Its also worthwhile pointing out that R' Shmuel (I...Its also worthwhile pointing out that R' Shmuel (I believe) is who proposed the Vaad. <BR/><BR/>-----------------------------------<BR/>It was R' Shmuel.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-21273280681471658532008-08-01T13:51:00.000-04:002008-08-01T13:51:00.000-04:00Its also worthwhile pointing out that R' Shmuel (I...Its also worthwhile pointing out that R' Shmuel (I believe) is who proposed the Vaad. So the questions may be best addressed by him.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-29948997537153668692008-08-01T13:47:00.000-04:002008-08-01T13:47:00.000-04:00R' Shmuel Kaminetsky is extremely accessable. His ...R' Shmuel Kaminetsky is extremely accessable. His phone number is as well. Just search for Samuel Kamenetsky in Philadelphia.<BR/><BR/>In the summer, as well as the rest of the year, he's not always home, or the line is busy, but there is no gatekeeper. He answers the phone himself.<BR/><BR/>So all those with questions, put up or shut up.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-3352261852977580752008-08-01T12:18:00.000-04:002008-08-01T12:18:00.000-04:00Yes, letter.Yes, letter.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-14122797346506701462008-08-01T11:47:00.000-04:002008-08-01T11:47:00.000-04:00I had to dig thru a bunch of Google entries till I...I had to dig thru a bunch of Google entries till I found a mention. :-)<BR/><BR/>You plan on making contact via writing?Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-91016214945621841162008-08-01T11:45:00.000-04:002008-08-01T11:45:00.000-04:00Thanks for the info.I am going to try and get addr...Thanks for the info.<BR/><BR/>I am going to try and get addresses as that is a better way to ensure receipt to some degree.<BR/><BR/>Fear not, I do not intend do acost them in writing or any other manner:) I spent many years in a fine makom torah and would not think of treating these individuals with anything but personal respect.<BR/><BR/>First things first is to get some contact info...looks like i have a project for next week.<BR/><BR/><I>Thanks to a Google search for that</I><BR/>--really? i put in his name and couldn't find a definitive mention of a yeshiva, thanks again.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-19428434426781167482008-08-01T11:29:00.000-04:002008-08-01T11:29:00.000-04:00Lakewood is not 100% Orthodox. There are non-Orth...Lakewood is not 100% Orthodox. There are non-Orthodox Jews, and many non-Jews, in the town of Lakewood. Why, when I went to an SCA event in Lakewood, we drove past a C shul, Kehillat Shmuel v'Dov, which we called Sam & Dave's Shul.<BR/><BR/>There's also a Catholic women's college in the town, Georgian Court; my wife took special-ed certification classes there, in the late 1980s, and it's RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE YESHIVA, says she.<BR/><BR/>Is the Tznius Committee going to spray ink on the Catholic girls if they don't dress tzniusly?thanbohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06197564008203120013noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-45941493429936300352008-08-01T11:19:00.000-04:002008-08-01T11:19:00.000-04:00R' Wachsman, Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivas “Meor Yitzch...R' Wachsman, Rosh Yeshiva of Yeshivas “Meor Yitzchok” in Monsey. (Thanks to a Google search for that.)<BR/><BR/>You'll probably have to be patient and persistent to reach them, as surely their all very busy. Imagine trying to reach a CEO (Good luck trying to reach the CEO of ConEd, let alone Google or ExxonMobil.) They're probably busier than a CEO, yet infinitely more reachable. Obviously it'll be necessary to extend to them the full decorum of respect for a Rosh Yeshiva (even though themselves they don't insist upon it.)<BR/><BR/>Please report back your findings.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-15538045244500296182008-08-01T11:02:00.000-04:002008-08-01T11:02:00.000-04:00fair enough, it's worth a shot to start.Please cor...fair enough, it's worth a shot to start.<BR/><BR/>Please correct me if I am wrong as far as which Yeshiva to contact for each Rav:<BR/><BR/>R' Solomon - Beis Medrash Gavoah<BR/>R' Kamenetzky - Philadelphia<BR/>R' Kotler - Beis Medrash Gavoah<BR/>R' Wachsman - **no idea...anybody?**Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-50849597396457044722008-08-01T10:53:00.000-04:002008-08-01T10:53:00.000-04:00Hmm. Joseph, help us out here with the numbers ple...Hmm. Joseph, help us out here with the numbers please?<BR/><BR/>Wolf, go for it. What will happen is, as it happens with any new initiative, betcha you'll be asked to run it since you have ALL the questions!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com