tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post2208064396995775616..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: Kol Koreh Against Heter MechiraBrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-75370819726473784162007-09-11T08:59:00.000-04:002007-09-11T08:59:00.000-04:00It is ridiculous that Shmita brings huge income to...It is ridiculous that Shmita brings huge income to Israeli enemies in Gaza and the Palestinian territories. Whatever are the religious overtones, they cannot excuse purchases from HAMAS voters. What do you think of Obadiah Shoher interpretating Shmita as charity obligation rather than agricultural rule? (Here, for example http://samsonblinded.org/blog/shmita-year-is-about-charity-not-agriculture.htm ) Anyway, I'll better buy from atheist kibbutzim than from Gaza.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-78700490818756104262007-09-10T13:38:00.000-04:002007-09-10T13:38:00.000-04:00I will admit to being a cynic, but part of me wond...I will admit to being a cynic, but part of me wonders if this has anything to do with the fact that almost no farmers are Haredi, and therefore the communities to which the rabbinute feels obligated will not be hurt by this.<BR/><BR/>Speaking as an Israeli it feels more and more like the rabbinute is responsible only to the Haredi community from which the chief rabbis are drawn.Zach Kessinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04276155117746098546noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-15608006500979833372007-08-31T13:26:00.000-04:002007-08-31T13:26:00.000-04:00I heard that R. Heinemann from Baltimore said the ...I heard that R. Heinemann from Baltimore said the following: <BR/>Because selling land in E"Y to a non-Jew is forbidden according to the Torah, when the farmer appoints to Rabbi to sell his land, it will not work based on the principle of "Ein Shliach L'dvar Aveirah" - a Shliach does not work for a sinful transaction. If the sale does not go through, then the land actually still belongs to the Jewish farmer and he is selling Shmita produce.<BR/><BR/>Obviously others disagree on this, holding there is a great necessity to sell then land and the sale does go through. <BR/><BR/>This is entirely different from Pruzbol where you are giving the responsibility of the loan contract to the Beis Din for the Shmitah year. This happens before Shmita where there is no sin involved and before the loan is canceled. Selling Chometz also occurs before Pesach and no sin is involved. But selling land in E"Y itself is a sin no matter when you do it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-57249190684752872792007-08-28T17:35:00.000-04:002007-08-28T17:35:00.000-04:00Hey Anon 9:25: Why'd ya have to be anonymous! such...Hey Anon 9:25: Why'd ya have to be anonymous! such an interesting point. (okay, withdrawing back into the background.zzzzzzip)Miriamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06067406973014144499noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-4951123603853320972007-08-28T10:14:00.000-04:002007-08-28T10:14:00.000-04:00The answer may be that Shemitas kesafim is just aa...The answer may be that Shemitas kesafim is just aas much a desicration as the heter mechirah is. The difference is that Hillel saw that nobody was lending money (which I believe is a mitzvah unto itself under helping poor people) and decided that it is better to "desicrate" the shmittah so at least other mitzvos will be kept. As opposed to the heter mechirah where there are other viable options, and poeple are not refraining from doing a seperate mitzvah if it is not in place.rescue37https://www.blogger.com/profile/13823591048706633363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-78388213175906269232007-08-28T10:13:00.000-04:002007-08-28T10:13:00.000-04:00The mishna in pirkei Avot says that galut is a res...The mishna in pirkei Avot says that galut is a result of not keeping shmitta. No one knows exactly what Hasem's plan is. However, it makes sense to be very careful with this mitzva if we truely care about Eretz Yisrael.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-19711436326609709832007-08-28T09:47:00.000-04:002007-08-28T09:47:00.000-04:00Anonymous,Why were we thrown out of Gush Katif?Has...Anonymous,<BR/>Why were we thrown out of Gush Katif?Has God spoken to you lately and told you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-57313982508673311732007-08-28T09:25:00.000-04:002007-08-28T09:25:00.000-04:00As you said- "I don't have the scholarhip." I will...As you said- "I don't have the scholarhip." I will not explain the halacha here. <BR/> The pruzbul was invented by the tanna Hillel as recorded in the mishna in Gitten. The heter mechirah was an attempt by well meaning rabbonim to find a halachik "loophole". It was not accepted by the vast majority of rabbonim from its inception in the 1880s. Rav Kook zt"l did not rely on the heter for his personal use. In his collected letters he calls it a heter of "dechak." Rav Elyashiv is not saying anything new!! There is NO question that Rav Kook himself would not use the heter today. <BR/>Today the world is small. Israel could import everything from abroad (if the govornment would allow it). We also have otsar beis din. <BR/>I find that the national-religious throw stones at the charadim as if it's a purely political issue. The truth is just the opposite. They have jumped upon a political bandwagon and have vilified those that keep the halacha. Don't you think if it could be kept in the late 19th century, it can be kept k'dat v'kadin in the 21st century? <BR/>The punishment for not keeping shmitta is golus-exile from Eretz Yisrael!! Why were we thrown out of gush Katif, r"l? The charedim are not responsible for doing aveiros that cause exile chas v'shalom!! Wake up and strengthen our hold on Eretz Yisrael by observing all of the mitzvos hateluyos ba'aretz lechatchila.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-50121361958895049852007-08-28T08:31:00.000-04:002007-08-28T08:31:00.000-04:00Eeees said the same thing to me last night (that m...Eeees said the same thing to me last night (that mechiras chametz was a better analogy). <BR/><BR/>Nonetheless, I chose shmitas k'safim because it, like not working the land, involves the seventh year and the two mitzvos are often linked.<BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-69367006296079518842007-08-28T05:00:00.000-04:002007-08-28T05:00:00.000-04:00Because the heter mechirah is a "zionist" inventio...Because the heter mechirah is a "zionist" invention, it must be violently opposed. A better analogy is mechirat chametz.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-51015034933428247962007-08-27T18:38:00.000-04:002007-08-27T18:38:00.000-04:00Great point.R..Ariel and other Gedolim disagree.R...Great point.<BR/>R..Ariel and other Gedolim disagree.R.Ariel should have been Chief Rabbi but was maneuvered out of the position by R.Elyashiv.The Charedim this year are buying from Hamas in Gaza.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-4531461656914927002007-08-27T17:53:00.000-04:002007-08-27T17:53:00.000-04:00Certainly the concept of a prozbol goes back *much...Certainly the concept of a prozbol goes back *much* further than the Heter Mechirah. No question about it.<BR/><BR/>My question is this -- it seems to me from Rav Eliyashiv's statement (and yes, I may be reading more into it than is actually there -- let me know what you think) that using the Heter Mechira is wrong because it allows us to "avoid" the mitzvah and not keep it properly. If that's so, then why is there no similar outcry regarding the prozbol? The fact that the workaround is of far greater antiquity doesn't really change the main point of it -- to allow us to "get around" the "problem" of shmitas k'safim.<BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-51883921386028281522007-08-27T17:35:00.000-04:002007-08-27T17:35:00.000-04:00Does the Heter Mechirah go back as far as the pruz...Does the Heter Mechirah go back as far as the pruzbul (Wasn't it from Hillel who was a Tana). The little that I know about the heter mechira is that it is a recent addition to the heterim. If in the time of the Mishna and the Gemara where the heter mechira would have probably been more important and life saving than nowadays they didn't institute it, why institute it now (i.e. within the last 100 years or so).rescue37https://www.blogger.com/profile/13823591048706633363noreply@blogger.com