tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post2358245755041475542..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: Women Should Not Be Seen Or Heard...BrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-20802988600576626712008-08-18T01:42:00.000-04:002008-08-18T01:42:00.000-04:00I like your blog. Yasher koach.I like your blog. Yasher koach.chaniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14023083898665410736noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-85564648320765281862008-08-10T23:03:00.000-04:002008-08-10T23:03:00.000-04:00Related: http://www.vosizneias.com/19134/2008/08/...Related: http://www.vosizneias.com/19134/2008/08/10/pikesville-md-first-orthodox-jewish-fire-lt-elected/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-36698523741133032242008-08-08T11:24:00.000-04:002008-08-08T11:24:00.000-04:00G:"That is your definition of a Kiddush Hashem?"fo...G:<BR/><BR/>"That is your definition of a Kiddush Hashem?"<BR/><BR/>for this context, yes. please see what i wrote to you by jameel.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-84372400864282259282008-08-08T08:33:00.000-04:002008-08-08T08:33:00.000-04:00G:"not the point of your post, i know, but...Kiddu...G:<BR/><BR/>"not the point of your post, i know, but...Kiddush Hashem? really?"<BR/><BR/>she is demonstrating that people who have dreams can reconcile them with observance.<BR/>----------------<BR/><BR/>A)That is debatable in this case.<BR/><BR/>B)That is your definition of a Kiddush Hashem?Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-17854238836017220512008-08-08T08:32:00.000-04:002008-08-08T08:32:00.000-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-77236303290928018702008-08-08T02:27:00.000-04:002008-08-08T02:27:00.000-04:00there are videos of her here:Bat El VideosG:"not t...there are videos of her here:<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://agmk.blogspot.com/2008/08/frum-taekwondo-girl-at-olympics.html" REL="nofollow"><BR/>Bat El Videos<BR/></A><BR/><BR/><BR/>G:<BR/><BR/>"not the point of your post, i know, but...Kiddush Hashem? really?"<BR/><BR/>she is demonstrating that people who have dreams can reconcile them with observance.Lion of Zionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10342299133387602141noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-28276820043415058832008-08-07T13:29:00.000-04:002008-08-07T13:29:00.000-04:00I've seen the world of the woman chained to the ho...I've seen the world of the woman chained to the house. Ultimately they have not even that as the man becomes the "man of the house" and they have nothing left but cleaning the bathroom and maybe getting her choice of curtains approved of.<BR/><BR/>I'm no feminist, but I'd rather my daughter took up prostitution in Nevada at a brothel than become chained to her home ruled over by some guy who treated her as property and gave her no love, support, or life. My own wife is a housewife, but she is amply encouraged to work as I do, have her friends, and to follow in her chosen interests which for her are crafting and makeup artistry.<BR/><BR/>Tznius is supposed to be more about modesty and humility in ways other than dress.-suitepotato-https://www.blogger.com/profile/04567987879881511630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-71359767086781454702008-08-07T09:15:00.000-04:002008-08-07T09:15:00.000-04:00not the point of your post, i know, but...Kiddush ...not the point of your post, i know, but...Kiddush Hashem? really?Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08512231582715592098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-26495642630946224772008-08-07T05:14:00.000-04:002008-08-07T05:14:00.000-04:00There must surely be a blogger's prize for "outsta...There must surely be a blogger's prize for "outstanding consistency in the field of sustained indignation."<BR/><BR/>I will be glad to submit the name of this site.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-69252105306835401722008-08-06T23:28:00.000-04:002008-08-06T23:28:00.000-04:00Great post, profk...Great post, profk...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-7337448813437171242008-08-06T22:27:00.000-04:002008-08-06T22:27:00.000-04:00Joseph,It may very well state that in the Shulchan...Joseph,<BR/><BR/>It may very well state that in the Shulchan Aruch. However, it's also pretty clear that we don't pasken that way. If we did, more men would go out and work so their wives could stay home.<BR/><BR/>And, please note, I didn't say that striving toward motherhood wasn't the greatest goal that she could achieve. My objection was that this was sending the message that this was the ONLY goal she should strive for. In that, I strongly disagree. I think a woman can accomplish many things *in addition* to being a fine wife and mother.<BR/><BR/>The WolfBrooklynWolfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-13039408982207180312008-08-06T21:26:00.000-04:002008-08-06T21:26:00.000-04:00Aman ProfK and Wolf, you're right- its less about ...Aman ProfK and Wolf, you're right- its less about what you're doing and more about the humility you have while doing it.<BR/><BR/>-amlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-27910236312825090572008-08-06T20:42:00.000-04:002008-08-06T20:42:00.000-04:00Leaving aside the young lady and her Olympic aspir...Leaving aside the young lady and her Olympic aspirations for the moment, let me address "What better goal can a Jewish "strive for besides being wives and mothers?" NOTHING. That is the most lofty of lofties a woman can accomplish. She should be praised and complimented for such an endeavor!" This was preceded by "Never say never, but Shulchan Orach is very specific that a woman belongs in the home and should minimize to the extreme the time she spends outside."<BR/> <BR/>Well then, all those who believe this to be one million percent true had best stop saying the Eyshis Chayil on Friday night. Go ahead and read the words, slowly and with understanding. That woman that you all praise so mightily is not a stay at home mom with no presence in the public sphere. She is the very epitome of the modern woman. She ran a household, took care of her workers, was busy in commerce and industry, met with merchants and basically took care of a lot of business that wasn't cooking and cleaning and being hidden from view. Do you think that Shlomo HaMelech (or whoever actually wrote Eyshis Chayil) made this picture up out of his imagination? This was what life was like for women then. Is someone seriously trying to promulgate the falsehood that Jewish women have been locked up behind closed doors in every other era except ours? That there have not been frum women of influence and prominence throughout the ages? That business, and thus the outside world, has been the sole province of men? It would be a kindness if the frummier boys yeshivas would institute the study of Jewish history, and maybe of Hebrew language courses, so that the boys would know what really went on and how to translate accurately the words that they mouth so readily. But if they want to stick to Gemorah, there's always the piece that starts out "When a woman owns a vineyard..."<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the digression Wolf but the type of blathering that goes on about how a woman's only place is in the home has become intolerable. <BR/> <BR/>For more of a discussion of the eyshis chayil see<BR/>http://kankanchadash.blogspot.com/2008/02/fear-of-hashem-according-to-mishlei.htmlProfKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17954446826821665314noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-28989811911627168062008-08-06T19:09:00.000-04:002008-08-06T19:09:00.000-04:00I have to wonder... is it simply there goal that w...<I>I have to wonder... is it simply there goal that women should never be seen or heard in a public forum at all?</I><BR/><BR/>Never say never, but Shulchan Orach is very specific that a woman belongs in the home and should minimize to the extreme the time she spends outside.<BR/><BR/>Yes, Shulchan Orach.<BR/><BR/><I>what message are we sending our girls? That there is nothing for them to strive for besides being wives and mothers? </I><BR/><BR/>Now THAT is loaded. What better goal can a Jewish "strive for besides being wives and mothers?" NOTHING. That is the most lofty of lofties a woman can accomplish. She should be praised and complimented for such an endeavor!<BR/><BR/><I>Of course, the thing that I find interesting is this: the objecters don't seem to be objecting to the outfit that she has to wear during the competion...</I><BR/><BR/>That clearly is implicitly one of the commenter's criticisms.<BR/><BR/><I>Well, in some respects, they are right. Drawing attention to yourself is, by definition, not tznius. But that has to apply equally to both men and women. </I><BR/><BR/>True. But drawing attention to oneself is a bigger issue for women than men. I think this is obvious.Josephhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407460404034430042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-83537041882353178892008-08-06T19:04:00.000-04:002008-08-06T19:04:00.000-04:00It drives me nuts when I see stuff like this from ...It drives me nuts when I see stuff like this from people who'd like to bring us back to the Middle Ages.Why can't people just be concerned with their own level of tzniut and leave others to their's.If these characters were really interested in Tzniut,they'd go out and work for a living and let their wives stay home....My B.S. detector just went off.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-36906471516680601032008-08-06T18:25:00.000-04:002008-08-06T18:25:00.000-04:00While I agree to the main thrust of this post, I t...While I agree to the main thrust of this post, I think it IS a valid question in specific whether what she is doing is okay or not. The Apple brought this up well at Jameel's (in the comments).<BR/><BR/>In addition, I think it is a valid question of where the line is drawn in terms of performing in public in general - there's a difference between serving as a judge and showcasing martial arts talents. While the second and third comments you quoted are off the wall, the first one is much closer to reasonable, if poorly stated.Ezziehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12494592434522239195noreply@blogger.com