tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post3837295856374440719..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: And The Hits (Literally!) ContinueBrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-36609362929106148992010-05-23T11:29:09.164-04:002010-05-23T11:29:09.164-04:00Correct, you do not nor do you want to. SO you wil...Correct, you do not nor do you want to. SO you will take things out of context without trying to understand them.E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-54746717387604707922010-05-23T10:40:01.450-04:002010-05-23T10:40:01.450-04:00"If u truly believe in the torah then u belie..."If u truly believe in the torah then u believe there is some spiritual problem with this person and the only way for that person to atone for his misgivings is death. This is true by a sabbath desecrater also. So if u believe in an eternal afterlife then it is very moral to put these people to death because u are actually saving their eternal life. However, one must believe in judaism first for any of this to happen because it is only true if u believe in judaism."<br /><br /><a href="http://garnelironheart.blogspot.com/2009/09/do-atheists-have-morals.html?showComment=1252846360273#c7446141862875956798" rel="nofollow">http://garnelironheart.blogspot.com</a><br /><br />I'll also point out that in the same comment, you said this,<br /><br />"Also, if u look closely G-D never commands the Jews to wipe out any nation. He commands for us to go to war but not to wipe them out."<br /><br />I suppose that killing all of the adults, along with the underage males, but keeping the underage females for themselves qualifies technically as not wiping them out.<br /><br />But, you're right - as I am not frum and don't have the benefit of a yeshiva education, I guess I just don't understand.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-91679255919692543642010-05-23T09:32:26.872-04:002010-05-23T09:32:26.872-04:00Also, when did I say people stop being religious f...Also, when did I say people stop being religious for no reason? I never said that. I said there are people who do it both ways.E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-87412443074694494322010-05-23T09:31:21.491-04:002010-05-23T09:31:21.491-04:00Of course you attack me, what you fail to understa...Of course you attack me, what you fail to understand you attack. You just don;t understand Judaism. I feel kinda sorry for you. <br /><br />You did not call me out whatsoever. I said that someone who believes in a religion chooses to hold of those religions rules and are subject to them. Why is that so bad again?<br /><br />You are a funny individual. Try understanding something before you attack it.E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-18908377254373771702010-05-23T09:18:51.498-04:002010-05-23T09:18:51.498-04:00Yes, E-Man, I expected a response of this sort fro...Yes, E-Man, I expected a response of this sort from you. Some months back, I caught you on another blog defending the idea of heresy as a capital offense. You also promoted that perennial frum/evangelical rationalization - if people stop being religious, it isn't because they have valid reasons (because there <i>are</i> no valid reasons, chos v'sholem), but because they simply stop caring. I called you out, and, of course, you attempted to rationalize your way out of it.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-51688546172269218182010-05-23T08:53:11.064-04:002010-05-23T08:53:11.064-04:00"I'm appalled by the rationalizations of ..."I'm appalled by the rationalizations of the Modern Orthodox commenters here - "Well, that's them, that isn't us." Meanwhile, you've spent the past three generations glancing furtively backward over your collective shoulder, longing for the approval of the Haredim. You tell your children, "Our way is better; we embrace the best of both worlds", but you communicate to them subliminally your suspicion that the Haredim do, in fact, represent "authentic" Judaism. This is why so many flip out and become crazy-frum during the requisite year in Israel between high school and college."<br /><br />This is just false. <br /><br />"They're supposed to be the most seriously Torah-observant people on the planet,"<br /><br />Also, false.E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-19536588767494634752010-05-20T11:07:51.964-04:002010-05-20T11:07:51.964-04:00WOW WOOW WOWWOW WOOW WOWLars Shalomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00889280301374934767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-79164286338848686872010-05-19T08:55:38.203-04:002010-05-19T08:55:38.203-04:00In another generation this sort of lunacy will pro...<i>In another generation this sort of lunacy will probably have been forgotten. </i><br /><br />Only because these people will bring about the collapse of Orthodoxy within one generation (if we have that much time left as a global civilization, which we probably haven't).<br /><br />I'm appalled by the rationalizations of the Modern Orthodox commenters here - "Well, that's them, that isn't us." Meanwhile, you've spent the past three generations glancing furtively backward over your collective shoulder, longing for the approval of the Haredim. You tell your children, "Our way is better; we embrace the best of both worlds", but you communicate to them subliminally your suspicion that the Haredim do, in fact, represent "authentic" Judaism. This is why so many flip out and become crazy-frum during the requisite year in Israel between high school and college.<br /><br />And how many Modern Orthodox rabbis take to the streets, either here or in Israel, decrying these incidents? None of whom I'm aware.<br /><br />Also, not one of you has said, "Wolf, I sympathize; it gets to me, too." Instead, almost immediately, this thread devolved into "This isn't about Judaism! It's about the Haredim!" For God's sake, the guy is suffering - your blathering about what constitutes "true Yiddishkeit" isn't helping him any.<br /><br />Wolf, this probably doesn't mean much coming from a gehinnom-bound atheist, but I hear you, and I'm sorry for your pain. As I tell you on the order of around once or twice a year - <i>this is who they are</i>. They're supposed to be the most seriously Torah-observant people on the planet, yet this insane subculture, which fosters these extremists, is the result. It isn't supposed to be that way, yet it is. I understand why it shakes you. I'm sorry.Jeff Eygeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11967707883565162538noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-3596543777390610982010-05-17T08:42:57.808-04:002010-05-17T08:42:57.808-04:00These enforcers need to spend more quality time le...These enforcers need to spend more quality time learning Torah and working.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-33355428351433873912010-05-16T13:46:57.078-04:002010-05-16T13:46:57.078-04:00לוקוס, לוקוס! עד מתי אתה מכלה ממונן של ישראל ואינך...לוקוס, לוקוס! עד מתי אתה מכלה ממונן של ישראל ואינך עומד להןnoam the preachernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-34331929413137419552010-05-16T10:17:03.794-04:002010-05-16T10:17:03.794-04:00Wolf - I became frum in the '70's, and the...Wolf - I became frum in the '70's, and the people who most influenced me were born and brought up in Europe and the Old Yishuv. One of them told me - the Torah is perfect but Jews aren't.<br /><br />The Jewish community goes through historical changes, which people nowadays have forgotten. Who remembers the Shabtai Tzvi debate in Europe, when people betrayed each other to the government? Or the bitterness of the machlokes between Rabbis Emden and Eibeschutz? Those were tragic eras. Other eras have been flourishing. We unfortunately live in a time period when craziness seems to be the klal, not the exception, and not just for Jews.<br /><br />The people who taught me Yiddishkeit would never have dreamed of hitting anyone, no matter what the provocation. In another generation this sort of lunacy will probably have been forgotten. The Torah endures.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-44763379024294128372010-05-14T13:05:08.500-04:002010-05-14T13:05:08.500-04:00In this post, I discussed my decision *not* to wea...In <a href="http://onthefringe_jewishblog.blogspot.com/2008/02/long-and-short-of-it.html" rel="nofollow">this</a> post, I discussed my decision *not* to wear a tallit katan. I make no bones about wearing tallit and tefillin in non-Orthodox synagogues. When it comes to dealing with those in the Orthodox community who disapprove, however, frankly, I'd rather not deal with their disapproval at all--as far as I'm concerned, aside from modesty issues, the way I dress when I come before HaShem in prayer is between me and HaShem, and there's no reason why anyone who disapproves of a woman wearing a tallit and/or tefillin even has to know that I do so.<br /><br />If I were to become Orthodox, I'd dodge the whole issue by wearing tallit and tefillin in private and covering the tefillin-strap marks with long sleeves. That said, I must state that, when I wrote the linked post, it never occurred to me that being seen in public with tefillin-strap marks on my arm could get me not only verbally chastized, but physically beaten up. It's quite frightening.Shira Salamonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989302669175887512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-37531711642546288572010-05-14T12:29:19.400-04:002010-05-14T12:29:19.400-04:00We also have to remember that what makes the news ...We also have to remember that what makes the news is always the exception, not the rule. People are murdered in Detroit every day. When was the last time you heard about it in the news?<br />What this incident shows is that Chareidi culture is just that: a culture. It isn't about better middos, superior learning or greater piety. It's just a culture or ethnic group. Every group has its saints, average guys and jerks. Chareidi PR men would like you to think that being Chareidi means you're an automatic tzadik but this incident shows that they're just like everyone else.Garnel Ironhearthttp://garnelironheart.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-5908217680150244962010-05-13T23:48:08.828-04:002010-05-13T23:48:08.828-04:00I agree with eman et al. Your faith in Charedi jud...I agree with eman et al. Your faith in Charedi judaism has been shaken, not judaism itself.Commenter Abbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07753256568022159103noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-31026789064952133742010-05-13T22:55:39.062-04:002010-05-13T22:55:39.062-04:00There are several different sects of Judaism. So C...There are several different sects of Judaism. So Charaidim beat people. Hvae you ever seen a centrist/ MO Jew beat someone? <br /><br />Does reform and conservative Judaism get put in the Judaism fold as well? <br /><br />Does every sect deserve to be considered Judaism and tehrefore Judaism will be judged by that sects leaders?<br /><br />I don;t think so. I think that just like one must search for the true religion, one must also search for the true sect of a religion. <br /><br />In this case Wolfe is saying Judaism. That is extremely broad. He doesn;t even identify with the charaidim. So how does the fact that more and more charaidim beat MO and centrists make his faith in centrist/MO judaism shake?E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-1435637662021148362010-05-13T22:51:49.150-04:002010-05-13T22:51:49.150-04:00"Just because there are people that are idiot..."Just because there are people that are idiots doesn't mean Judaism is stupid."<br /><br />True, but that excuse only goes so far---and we've gone WAY beyond it, years ago. To loosely paraphrase Wolf, when more & more people do something, it's harder to dismiss as isolated craziness. Frum society, and frum apologists, refuse to grasp the concept of a trend---each individual may be nuts, or clueless, or stupid, but as a society, we are producing far more people like that. So, there's no 'kashya' on God---but on Judaism, as currently defined by our leaders & ourselves---there damn sure are some big ta'anos.JRSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-63727835396813818552010-05-13T22:50:21.763-04:002010-05-13T22:50:21.763-04:00I wouldn't be so sure he wouldn't have bea...I wouldn't be so sure he wouldn't have beat her for eating a ham sandwich or anything else you listed. He obviously felt he had a right to do it and that feeling didn't just dawn on him out of the thin blue air - it's obviously something he and his peers have cultivated as an acceptable solution for dealing with people who don't agree with them concerning religious practice. It is something he and/or his peers have done before - it just didn't make the news. He believes he has the right to beat people who disagree with him. That psycho mentality was taught to him by somebody. That's the scary part.Ahavahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12795309173195607578noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-4428054861917701322010-05-13T22:34:38.075-04:002010-05-13T22:34:38.075-04:00I get a good laugh every time some sucker falls fo...I get a good laugh every time some sucker falls for these stories in the zionist media.Davenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-44838726872152286222010-05-13T17:34:35.921-04:002010-05-13T17:34:35.921-04:00E-man read my mind.E-man read my mind.Baruchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08051421355654178857noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-52043230953173502482010-05-13T17:02:57.786-04:002010-05-13T17:02:57.786-04:00I agree with lion of Zion. How do crazy Jews shake...I agree with lion of Zion. How do crazy Jews shake your faith in Judaism?<br /><br />Just because there are people that are idiots doesn't mean Judaism is stupid. You practice Judaism the correct way, there are people that worship avoda zara and call it Judaism. What if someone started blowing themselves up and saying that Judaism commands it? You would call the guy a loon and say he does not represent Judaism. Would that shake your faith though? Why just because some psycho path likes to kill people and himself?E-Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06327848648278849664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-38787323256259603582010-05-13T14:22:18.728-04:002010-05-13T14:22:18.728-04:00"I'm telling you all, there are times whe..."I'm telling you all, there are times when my faith in Judaism is shaken"<br /><br />i could understand why this would make you want to distance yourself from other jews (or certain types of jews), but what does faith in judaism have to do with any of this?Lion of Zionhttp://agmk.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-61308234533351509502010-05-13T13:14:19.836-04:002010-05-13T13:14:19.836-04:00Not necessarily. Tefillin marks also go around th...Not necessarily. Tefillin marks also go around the hand which she does not need to have covered. However, the chareidi in question is now at fault because even though women don't have to weaer gloves in public, the gemara forbids looking at a woman's hand, even her little finger so he's the real sinner here.<br /><br />Now just try telling him that...Garnel Ironheartnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-89933125311403848642010-05-13T12:43:17.694-04:002010-05-13T12:43:17.694-04:00You missed a detail. If he could see the 'tefi...You missed a detail. If he could see the 'tefillin marks' then she clearly was not fully tznius in dress. The beating was about tznius once again - tefillin was the red herring.<br /><br />Personally I think these attacks are just an excuse for these men to take second base.LW2noreply@blogger.com