tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post8465321189765107346..comments2023-10-30T08:40:59.016-04:00Comments on Wolfish Musings: Average KidsBrooklynWolfhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03994285019137108636noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-37802483540087413602007-03-06T20:44:00.000-05:002007-03-06T20:44:00.000-05:00every society has an underbelly, and i venture to ...every society has an underbelly, and i venture to say that ours is the idolization of intellect and knowledge. the worship of intellectual excellence leads us to discount anyone but the so called best, to overemphasize one feature of a person and to forget all the other parts of what makes one a mentsch, and to set impossible standards ( hey let us not forget that intelligence is in the form of a bell shaped curve). it also has lead us to leave disabled babies in hospitals, to be way retarded educationally and socially when it comes to special needs, and far far less kind. i see this whole thing as a mania, a crazy amd ultimately self-destructive dance toward a human generated view of what a good jew is. well, these are some thoughts triggered by your column.eglantinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09109188899859707682noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-48275102177740246572007-03-01T07:07:00.000-05:002007-03-01T07:07:00.000-05:00I recommend Shifra’s post reacting to the same ar...I recommend <A HREF="http://askshifra.blogspot.com/2007/02/nothing-special.html" REL="nofollow"> Shifra’s post</A> reacting to the same article.<BR/><BR/>We had some interesting times with our own son, as well, given his delays in learning and social-skills development. I was not happy when my sister suggested that our son aim for Harvard. Just because he was fairly bright didn't mean that he could handle that kind of competitiveness. You really nailed when you said, "I think that it is the responsibility of parents to try to find the best school that their son will fit in, and not necessarily the best school."Shira Salamonehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15989302669175887512noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-53003274915660236332007-02-28T10:25:00.000-05:002007-02-28T10:25:00.000-05:00I think the post that said the issue is that we ha...I think the post that said the issue is that we have one metric is dead on. I do want my children to go to an elite school but ideally one that is elite in their area of skill/preference. The problem is instead you have the option of the good gemorah school or the bad gemorah school.<BR/><BR/>The other question I have on this topic is do kids who go to the "top" yeshivas turn out better? Are they happier? Do they end up contributing more to the community? Are they generally closer to Hashem? Or do they just know more gemorah...<BR/><BR/>There seems to be this perception that if my kid goes to a school and learns more dafs then the other kids he has an advantage. Sometimes I wonder if it is more about the parents being able to say that their kid goes to school X then it is about hte kids.<BR/><BR/>I don't have any answer but I do know that in my experience there is very little correlation between school performance and success/satisfaction for my classmates.OrthoMonkeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08284277630197646193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-3422096458078213312007-02-27T13:33:00.000-05:002007-02-27T13:33:00.000-05:00I went to one of the "Big Three" yeshivos you ment...I went to one of the "Big Three" yeshivos you mentioned. <BR/><BR/> In my humble opinion, an eighth grader shouldn't be learning gemara. Or at least it should be the <I>toful</I>, not the <I>ikkar.</I> Certainly a fifth grader shouldn't be learning gemara. What 9 or even 12 year-old can readily grasp such abstract concepts? If we were to compare (<I> lehavdil elef havdolos,</I> of course) Jewish studies to secular studies, teaching Gemara to fifth or eighth graders, who may have never even learned the entire Chumash or Mishna, is like teaching the same grade level graduate-level tort law or Constitutional Law. We wouldn't expect Junior HS kids to excel at Law School level courses, so why should we expect them to excel at Gemara?<BR/><BR/>I believe that this curriculum style is a very "Europshe" thing that just stuck in America. By all common sensibilities, kids in grade school should be learning Chumash with Rashi and Navi the majority of the time. Then halacha, and then maaaaybe a taste of Gemara. This gemara-heavy curriculum just sails right over the heads of the kids who are not ready or cut out for it, and then they get left behind at the expense of the others who are "excelling".Nice Jewish Guyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08143569412761938449noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-78605986995191226882007-02-27T07:54:00.000-05:002007-02-27T07:54:00.000-05:00That last post is me. It took me a bit to reset my...That last post is me. It took me a bit to reset my blogger login.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03121175430035252217noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-11808856760359872752007-02-27T06:34:00.000-05:002007-02-27T06:34:00.000-05:00I think its part of a larger pattern, in that it s...I think its part of a larger pattern, in that it seems that gamara is the only metric we care about in terms of if a jewish man. Kolel is a status symbol, even if it really is not right for everyone, or even very wrong for some people. There are a lot of guys out there who are (or could be) upstanding jews and examples to us all who may not have any skill with a gamara, but have something else to give to a community.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-49072485293023168402007-02-27T05:11:00.000-05:002007-02-27T05:11:00.000-05:00Okay, I reread Rabbi H's column, and I see that yo...Okay, I reread Rabbi H's column, and I see that you don't quite say the same thing. He's right, though, that we all want our kids to be in exclusive schools, until our kid is rejected from one. Then we complain bitterly.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-84544857382176692322007-02-27T05:07:00.000-05:002007-02-27T05:07:00.000-05:00Rabbi Horowitz's "vicious cycle" doesn't make any ...Rabbi Horowitz's "vicious cycle" doesn't make any sense. How many yeshivot can only draw excellent students? There simply aren't enough excellent students to go around.mother in israelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13715046177293916034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11425059.post-44627087852182099922007-02-27T00:37:00.000-05:002007-02-27T00:37:00.000-05:00i know you probably won't say, but i'm curious whi...i know you probably won't say, but i'm curious which brooklyn schools you consider modern.<BR/><BR/>"Sadly, the way Rabbi Horowitz reports it, it's a vicious cycle -- parents demand more excellence, so more "average" kids get left out . . ."<BR/><BR/>it's a tough call. every parent wants what's best for his child, and there's nothing wrong with this. if your son were that stellar prodigy, wouldn't you want the school to cater to his type?<BR/><BR/>"Truth to tell, I think that it is the responsibility of parents to try to find the best school that their son will fit in, and not necessarily the best school."<BR/><BR/>it's good that you can be honest with yourself about what is best for your kids. many parents can't be so honest with themselves.<BR/><BR/>-ari kinsberg<BR/>agmk.blogspot.comAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com