Tuesday, June 06, 2006

Did I Miss The Announcement?

From Frumteens (emphasis and brackets mine):

Stating that Chazal’s knowledge is based on the reality, not mere scientific observation, he [Rav Briel, the rebbe of the Pachad Yitzchock] assures his Talmid that without a doubt the rabbinic science is more accurate than the science of the scientists, and even if currently it appears one way, the rabbinic view will eventually be proven correct. He mentions that in the disagreement between the sages and the scientists regarding whether the sun revolves around the earth or vice versa, the sages conceded to the scientists, but centuries later, it was proven that the Torah sages were right all along.

Oy yoy yoy...

The Wolf

15 comments:

Anonymous said...

its a widespread lie among them that centuries later it was that the sun evolves around the earth.

this is a way for people to keep confirming each other that they are right.

Jack's Shack said...

It is often all about doing things to maintain power.

Ben Avuyah said...

Is that a joke ? please tell me people don't still believe that...

RJT said...

The *real* question is not whether science or Torah is right, but why would anyone bother reading Frumteens?

BrooklynWolf said...

Ben,

Sadly, yes. I first posted on this back in March 2005 when I found a poster on ChabadTalk who thought the notion that the earth goes around the sun was an "outdated assumption."

RJT-
There are two primary reasons that I read FT - firstly for comedic value. Secondly, because I don't like to let garbage go unanswered.

The Wolf

Michael Koplow said...

Something I once saw in a biblio and made a note of, but haven't looked up yet: Nussbaum, Alexander. “Creationism and Geocentrism among Orthodox Jewish Scientists.” National Center for Science Education Reports 22 no. 2 (2002): 38-43. I take this to mean that among OJ scientists geocentrism is a controversial proposition. (I don't actually know this because, to repeat myself, I haven't read Nussbaum's paper.)

socialworker/frustrated mom said...

Torah is right but the rabbis aren't right much of the time. It is a conflict when we are supposed to be able to go to our rabbis for clarity.

FrumGirl said...

I'm confused, are you saying the sun revolves around the earth?!?!?!

Steg (dos iz nit der šteg) said...

frumgirl:

he's saying that the Frumteens guy thinks it does

Balabusta in Blue Jeans said...

I thought the B'nei Brak Flat Earth Society was...a hyperbole.

Does anyone else occasionally imagine the Rambam and Einstein playing chess in some vast viewing gallery of the next world, watching all this and occasionally bursting out with hysterical giggles?

Anonymous said...

You haven't yet noted the rabbis who say that man never landed on the moon because a posuk says that the moon is beyond man's reach (guest rabbi at Ohr Somayach in Monsey).
Also, the rabbi who subscribes to the homunculus theory--and that the scientists have photographs of this, which they suppress in order to advance their agenda of licentiousness (R. Eliezer Schick in his multi-volume Asher Banachal).
In addition, there is the rabbi who stated that when in an airplane he saw the sea beneath the earth (based on a posuk) through cracks in the earth.
Also, there is hte rabbi who stated that when the Vilan Gaon quotes a scientist, then that quote is Torah and therefore cannot be challenged (guest teacher at Ohr Somayach in Monsey).

lakewoodyid said...

Wolf,

Time for another argument.

New post please.

Tzedek Tzedek Tirdof said...

I didn't know that science was Halachically legislated.

Krum as a bagel said...

I don't even think the issue in the machlokes in the Gemara is geo- vs. helio- centrism. Neither side of the debate argued for a heliocentric universe.

Rebeljew said...

Krum

The Gemara Pesachim 94b states an argument between the Jeish and nonJewish sages:
The Jewish held that the sun exits the opaque firmament at night, crosses over to the other side and re-enters at daybreak.
The nonJewish held that the sun passes beneath the Earth at night and comes up the next day on the other side.

The majority of later Jewish sages side with the nonJewish sages in this. For instance, in drawing water for the matzos, it must be perfectly tepid. So it cannot be collected at night, since, as the nonJewish sages note, the water is warmed up from beneath the Earth at night when the sun is there. The proof is that we see steam coming up from the water surface in the morning.

According to the Jewish sages, there are no time zones, the planets and moon radiate their own light (since the sun is on the other side of an opaque screen), and the Sun follows an eratic course. This was no problem for them since they believed that celestial bodies were intelligent and operated by kavana.

So you are correct. Even those who keep the RT zman and the mayim shalanu at shkia are not opposed by rationalists in the Gemara.