Wednesday, February 24, 2010

Tznius Lunacy Abounds

From the tznius craziness files this week:

Don't Sing So Well...

A young bride moves to Lakewood to be with her husband's family. Her sister-in-law, who is affiliated with a local tznius organization which was sending out a mass-mailing in the community. The mass-mailing was to include a CD with songs sung by women. (I would presume that the mailing was meant only for women.) The sister-in-law recruits the young bride (who apparently has had some voice training) to record a few tracks for the CD. Sister-in-law, who also sings (but not as well as the young bride) also recorded some songs for the track.

So, what happened?

my mother ending up slipping to me, that the tznius organization wasn’t going to be using any of the tracks that I sang on. They loved my voice, it’s beautiful, don’t get them wrong. However, in comparison to my sister-in-laws voice (which is quite nice) mine is much more trained, and since the purpose of the organization is to promote tznius, they didn’t think it was a good idea to have a voice like mine on their cd.

A trained singing voice is not tznius? Keep in mind, we're not talking about a woman singing in front of men, since were that the case, the women would not have recorded any tracks at all. We're talking about women singing in front of women -- and it's still not considered tznius! One wonders where this is headed next. Will women swimming together not be allowed to wear a standard bathing suit because it's not tznius?

(UPDATE 2/25 8:30AM: See below for explanation on this next item)
Your Blog Might Lead To Mixed Dancing

Next up on the hit parade, Altie, of MoVinG oN, a Chabad-Lubavitch female blogger, reports that she received an email from "The Committee for the Furtherance of Jewish Purity" (whomever they may be), telling her that she must close her comments to males and restrict what she writes to things that don't reflect badly on Chabad or Crown Heights. Ideally, of course, it would be better for a Bas Melech to not blog at all, as the idea of a woman expressing her thoughts violates the principle of kol k'vudah bas melech p'nima. As the letter states:

Kol kvuda bas melech pnima. A girl’s purpose is to be a mekabel. Not to overly express herself to the world around her. Al achas kama vkama to express herself in a way that is nontznius, and therefore is a drastic chillul Hashem and chillul shem Lubavtich.

and (emphasis added)

Obviously, to cease to express yourself through the derech of the internet, or bchlal in the world, as stated above: kol kvuda bas melech pnima, that would be the ideal. We hope that one day you will realize this remedy on your own. As for now, we are merely requesting the abovementioned guidelines to follow.

From the positive can be inferred the negative, and we hope that “a word to the wise is sufficient”. We would hope to not have to resort to any unpleasant measures, but of course we will do what must be done.

Interestingly enough, in their next email, they asked her to rat out her "blogging friends."

Incidentally, if you could share with us some information about a few of your 'blogging' friends (which as you know, the Rebbe would be very against having such friendships in the first place. It goes against everything the holy Torah dictates), then your help would show your sincere desire to not cause us to take necessary actions.

The committee would have made ol' Joe McCarthy proud.

The Pop Star Who Came To Lakewood

Moving right along, we have the letter from a store clerk in Lakewood who doctors products when the containers contain non-tznius images... and then catches flack when he or his staff misses one of the thousands of packages. He tells the story of one instance where a package contained an image of a female teen pop-star. The store clerks went to work marking up the containers but apparently missed at least one. A woman who bought a missed package came into the store and made a scene, screaming “What if a boy bought this and took it to another level?”

Took it to another level? What was he going to do? Call Miley Cyrus' agent to arrange a hook-up?

Eventually, the matter went to a local posek who ruled that as long as the images are covered, they can be sold.

The clerk, however, put the problem in focus:

There are so many problems. But no. A picture of a teen pop star was more important to wast the posek’s precious time. We have people dealing drugs to our kids, and this woman convinced the posek that our disposable package with a smiling girl will destroy our kids. I work in a store. I hear all. I know what is going on in this town. There are so many crazy problems. I never once heard someone say their child went off because of a fruit snacks package with a cd offer from M.C

Tznius Is In The Eyebrow Of The Beholder

And lastly, we have the case in Israel where an eyebrow shaping advertisement has drawn the wrath of local officials in Modiin Ilit (in Israel). It seems that the shape of an eyebrow is enough to cause the passions of men to erupt and, as such, the ads are not tznius. As Rafi (from Life In Israel) points out, this is likely to have an economic impact on the women of Modiin Ilit, as cosmotology is a very popular career among the wives of the community.

I always find it amazing how overboard we go with tznius. It's one thing to have rules and guidelines. There should be guidelines for acting and dress (for men AND women). I do believe that there is wisdom in a limited separation of the sexes. But the extremes to which some people carry it are just too much. I've often observed that the very first place we encounter tznius is when the prophet tells us to walk humbly with God. When he told us that, he wasn't advising us regarding skirt lengths, stockings and women singing in public. Do you think the women who caused a scene in the Lakewood grocery was adhering to the principle of Hatzneah Leches Im Hashem Elokecha? I don't think so - on the contrary, I'm convinced her actions were the direct opposite.

The Wolf

UPDATE 2/25 8:30am: Apparently the item on Altie's blog was a hoax. My apologies for posting it.

36 comments:

Altie said...

:) Thanks for the link.

ProfK said...

I have to wonder how some of these people reconcile themselves to Purim and the whole story in the Megillah, that's Megillas Esther. Or have they already taken care of that by changing it to read "Megillas Mordechai"?

Anonymous said...

Ummm, Wolf, have you not heard about the tznius bathing suit?!?! It exists - women did not want to be seen in non-tznius bathing suits, even in women-only crowds!

Erachet said...

A girl’s purpose is to be a mekabel. Not to overly express herself to the world around her.

That makes me want to throw up.

Anonymous said...

There was a family in town who does not have the luxury of such a grocery store. Their idea of a family activity was to black out snap crackle and pop because they show elbows.


I would love to take more time to comment, but I just bought some Aunt Jemima pancake mix and I need to take it to the next level.

G*3 said...

> A girl’s purpose is to be a mekabel

Wow. That literally means, “A girl’s purpose is to be submissive.” They’re not even bothering to be subtle or pretend they hold that women are people. And then they threaten her? Disgusting. I’ve read her blog occasionally. She seems like a sweet girl who’s committed to Yidishkeit and Lubavitch but sometimes has some doubts. Demeaning women and threats is definitely the way to go to keep someone frum, right?

> Took it to another level? What was he going to do? Call Miley Cyrus' agent to arrange a hook-up?

No, don’t you know that people, especially men, have no self control? Some poor unsuspecting bochur is going to pass by the store, see the package, and buy it so that he could spend some quality time alone in the bathroom…

BrooklynWolf said...

black out snap crackle and pop because they show elbows.

At the risk of asking an insane question about a surreal world...

Aren't SC&P male?

The Wolf

PsychoToddler said...

Wait--wasn't the original plan for us to all be walking around Gan Eden naked?

Altie said...

"I’ve read her blog occasionally. She seems like a sweet girl who’s committed to Yidishkeit and Lubavitch but sometimes has some doubts. Demeaning women and threats is definitely the way to go to keep someone frum, right?"

G3- Thanks :)

Anonymous said...

One aspect of tznius is modesty in expression. How these strident campaigns accord with that baffles me.

Anonymous said...

Wolf - When was the last time you saw a gadol's elbow?

BrooklynWolf said...

When was the last time a gadol was an elf who inhabits children's cereal bowls?

The Wolf

E-Man said...

HAHA that made me laugh wolf. Anyway, tznius is a big problem since there are no clear cut definitions. Anyone can make up anything they want about it. Hopefully, these foolish people will go away at some point. It really sickens me that there are people that have no idea how to live as thoughtful and kind Jews, let alone human beings with a real capacity to think.

Aaron S. said...

G*3 - It is natural for a woman to be submissive.

Mike S. said...

1) I can hardly imagine something less tzniusdik than comparing one's self or one's movement to God Himself as in "a chillul HaShem and a chillul shem Lubavitch."

2) There is something really wrong with violating issurim d'oraita to further a chumra in tznius.

3) It is sometimes worth remembering that "Col C'vuda bat melech p'nima" is a passuk in tehillim, not Chumash, and thus cannot be the source of a Mitzvah. In context, by the way, it is clear that the passuk is talking about a Gentile princess in the literal sense.

BrooklynWolf said...

I can hardly imagine something less tzniusdik than comparing one's self or one's movement to God Himself as in "a chillul HaShem and a chillul shem Lubavitch."

To be fair, this isn't something that is a result of the tznius campaign. I first heard the term in 2005 when I started blogging and commented on it then.

The Wolf

Mordechai Y. Scher said...

"Or have they already taken care of that by changing it to read "Megillas Mordechai"?"

ProfK, haven't you noticed that people just call it 'the megillah'?

Personally, I've been pushing for Megillat Mordechai for a long time...

SuperRaizy said...

I would leave a comment, but I'm afraid that I might overly express myself to the world around me.

Mike S. said...

Wolf: it may not be a result of a tznius campaign, but it ought to give one pause before commenting on someone else's supposed lack of tznius.

BrooklynWolf said...

Mike,

I'd agree with you, except they probably don't think of tznius in terms of how the navi proclaimed it. They think of tznius in terms of 99.9% dictating how women dress, speak and act and .1% making sure the men don't run around naked.

The Wolf

Mike S. said...

Which is another way of saying they don't get the basic idea.

BrooklynWolf said...

True.

The Wolf

Altie said...

It was all a joke

To all of you:

This apology is not mine, but I feel it must be said. Regarding all this tumult in the blogging community, and in particular this post and letter, I was just told that it was a joke. There is no 'tznius committee'. There are no lunatics out there trying to shut down my blog. (Not that I know of at least.)

It was just the work of two bloggers out to have some fun and play a practical purim joke. So haha, the jokes on me.

http://www.vaadshmirashadasvhatarah.blogspot.com/

Dave said...

C'mon Alti, why'd you have to burst Wolf's bubble? It fit his agenda so well...

Altie said...

sorry i just felt bad about letting ppl think that it was real.

Va'ad Shmiras Hadas Vhatarah said...

perhaps we can be dan l'kaf zchus for the other stories, as well? or is that wishful thinking?

G*3 said...

> Aaron S. said...
> G*3 - It is natural for a woman to be submissive.

How do you know that?

> Altie said...
> sorry i just felt bad about letting ppl think that it was real.

Someone here agrees with them (at least partly). Poe’s law, no?

Anonymous said...

Wolf: it will please your readers to know that the Committee for the Destruction of Jewish Sanity is being dealt with. We may have to resort to unpleasant measures ourselves, but we will try to avoid that at all costs.

frumskeptic said...

Isn't it sad that the frum community has gone so nuts that the joke was so darn beleivable?

PsychoToddler said...

making sure the men don't run around naked.

except in the mikveh

Dave said...

"Isn't it sad that the frum community has gone so nuts that the joke was so darn beleivable?"

It was believed by those looking to criticizr the Jewish community, and who tend to latch on anything they can use to criticize frum people.

Simcha said...

No Dave, it was believed by people who live in the frum community, and have seen enough of such behavior to make the story quite credible.

Dave said...

No Simcha, it was latched onto by people who call themselves frum yet love to criticize everything in site in frum society.

G*3 said...

> people who call themselves frum yet love to criticize everything in site in frum society.

Does criticizing frum society make someone not frum? Even if they go out of their way to find things to criticize, the most you could say about them is that they're being oiver on loshon hara.

Incidentally, Dave, there really are orginizations that arrogate to themselves the right to dictate things like appropriate tznius, appropriate music, etc. and take aggressive and occasionally violent action. They don't normally target small blogs, but it's not at all hard to beleive that they might.

eglantine said...

first of all, i am glad that you are back blogging again. i really enjoy your essays/commentaries/musings or whatever.
regarding the current comment: i am wondering how people find time doing all of this police work and standards setting and enforcing oriented to control others' behavior. i work to make a living, i take care of a disabled child, have another one in college, and run my household by myself. i can think of plenty of things that could use improvement -- in myself. in short, i would not have the time and the energy to join one of these patrols. but then again, maybe it is my taxes that support those folk and allow them to engage in such 'holy ' work. gotta go.

Anonymous said...

"A girl’s purpose is to be a mekabel."

Does this mean frummies are finally starting to teach Sex-ed 101?

(P.S. I know it was a hoax)