Thursday, June 30, 2005

What *exactly* is a Chillul Lubavitch?

Every once in a while, I visit the ChabadTalk message boards. No, I'm not Lubavitch, but it does give me an insight into another segment of the frum community.

In any event, I've seen on more than one occasion, the term "Chillul Lubavitch."

I don't think any other sect of Judaism has such a term (i.e. I don't think Satmars go about complaining that someone is making a "Chillul Satmar," for example). It's obviously a take off of the term "Chillul HaShem."

Seeing this term, I have several questions:
  • When did this term first get started?
  • Is it commonly used in the Lubavitch community, or is it just a messageboard phenomenon.
  • And, lastly, what, precisely, is it? One person (linked to above), states that a yeshiva bochur wearing jeans is a CL. Is it really? How is it different from a Chillul HaShem? Is Lubavitch's honor any more precious than HaShem.

(BTW, I'm not looking to attack Lubavitch in this post -- I'm really just hoping someone [maybe an insider] can give me more of an insight into this confusing terminology.)

Normally, I'd ask there directly, but it seems that there is a problem with my account... :)

The Wolf


Anonymous said...

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Never knew that before...The basic definition, according to what I found on google, is that a "chillul Lubavitch" is when you "do the opposite of what the Rebbe wants." I guess everyone would try to figure out exactly what the Rebbe would want, were he alive, and to do the opposite is a chillul Lubavitch. That's why this term would never have been used before. The website I saw this on (though I don't agree with all the ideas) is this one.

You might want to put this question to, because he might know the exact meaning. The idea you stated above- about wearing jeans- is probably used in the same light way people throw about "chillul Hashem." People will say it's a chillul Hashem to do this or that even when it really isn't. But that's just my guess.

orthomom said...

Sorta like the Lubavitch version of WWJD, I guess...

Editor said...

I don't see how the article from "Beis Moshiach" in the last post is related to this term at all.

In my view the term refers to the responsibility that Lubavitchers carry as representatives of the Lubavitcher Rebbe and the movement.

It similiar to the commonly used phrase "chilul Hashem" used to remprimand an orthodox child who is making a bad example in public..

I don't have a direct source, but I seem to recall that the term originates from public talks of the Lubavitcher Rebbe and perhaps even his predecessor. Not necissarily the exact term but references are made to upholding the "name" of Lubavitch. The reason we feel it is important to uphold the honor of this name is because the movement's goal is to spread the knowledge of G-d, Hashem and his commandements. Any dilution of the movements name could possibly work against acieving this goal. So it is not the name itself that is so dear, rather it is to reac our goal.

Hope this helps!

Editor said...

Sorry about the typos!

BrooklynWolf said...

Thanks for the response, Editor. I appreciate that you put in the time and effort to respond.

However, I'm kind of curious how it is that only Lubavitch has this concept (that one can be "M'chalel" the particular sect of chassidus and/or Judaism that they belong to).

I'd also like to know in what way is a Chillul Lubavitch different from a Chillul HaShem from a Lubavitch standpoint.

In other words, since I am not a Lubavitcher, I would assume that you would say that I cannot make a "Chillul Lubavitch." But, what would it take for a Lubavitcher to do to cause a "Chillul Lubavitch" that wasn't also a Chillul HaShem?

The Wolf

Editor said...

As to why other gruops do not have this concept (assuming they don't, you would have to ask them why.

Since we are not reffering to "kiddush" and the opposite in the halachic sense, doesn't that leave it open to your personal take on the matter? (Or guidelines set by your Rebbe/Rabbi/parent etc.)

For the sake of discussion, since Lubavitch is quite clear on what is expects from Lubavitchers - which above and beyond what Halacha requires, they are many scenarios I can think of that would be classified a kiddush Lubavitch and not particularly outstanding as a kiddush Hashem and vice versa.


i thought (messianic) lubovitch was a chillul?

Anonymous said...

just found this site
I think "chillul lubavitch" is just as you said! Cuz with wearing jeans there is nothing wrong no “aveira” (maybe “don’t go in the ways of the goyim”) and we have many people that are very very frum but still where jeans BUT on the standards that lubavitch has and that the rebbe set it is a chllul lubavitch.
[the same as if a Jew (and more so a frum one) will steal taxes and will be in the papers it’s a “chillul hashem” even though it was from a goy] or something along those lines
And what you ask is it a chlul hashem to where jeans absolutely not!

this is a new term used for the last 13 years because when the rebbe was living and healthy no one had the chutzpa to do things that will not meet the standards of lubavitch because he knew that the next day he will have to face the Rebbe face to face what would I tell him when he asks me why did you do this and that!!!
But now everyone does what they want “yechi” “alive”, all that the that crap its just plain and simple a “:chilul lubavitch” we are out their in the world to make shore every single yid will have matosos for pesach tffilin, mezuzah shabbos,……… so we have to keep to our standards satmar just has their own community that they stick with but lubavitch tries to deal with the worlds and make the name of hashem know over the entire world